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Would You Take This Shot?
Reader Chris Brown sent in the You Tube video link that’s posted below. It depicts an anonymous (to me) bowhunter shooting a mule deer buck at what he claims is 103 yards. While I couldn’t see the arrow impact, the buck turns up dead in the ensuing frames, so I assume he made the shot. And of course the shooter notes that the bow—a PSE X-Force—is responsible for the animal running only 100 yards before expiring.
Since this blog is not afraid of debate, you probably recognize what I’m doing by including this clip. But before I turn you loose on the topic of 100-yard bow kills, allow me a few thoughts.
* First, the long held mantra of 20-yards-and under as an acceptable shot distance for bowhunting is largely outdated. Today’s bows -- especially those like the X-Force (which I mention only because of the video) -- shoot at 300 fps and up and are capable of accurate, killing shots well beyond 20 yards in the hands of even a moderately-skilled bowhunter.
* Individual skill/experience is a far better predictor of what constitutes an “ethical shot” than the equipment itself. Example: my friend Rod White, who earned an Olympic Gold Medal in archery. Olympic shooters fling arrows -- shot from recurve bows with no sights -- at targets 100 meters away and group them in fist-size wads. Also, I know of at least two other bowhunters who routinely practice, with hunting gear, at 100-yard targets. Trust me, the vitals of an elk standing 50 yards away in a meadow do not present a tough shot for these guys.
* That said, hunting is an imperfect art performed in an uncontrolled environment. Unlike targets, animals can move or shift unexpectedly ... and can suffer terribly if your shot is untrue. And, of course, we are anything but perfect in a hunting situation; with unforeseen factors like wind, weather, and the incalculable effects of buck fever wearing on us.
So now I will open up the debate. You have a hotter-than-a-pepper new bow that flings arrows 350fps. You’ve practiced out to 80 yards all summer. The buck of your dreams appears at 65 steps on opening day.
Whattya do?
Fake. To me, it didn't seem like it took long enough for the arrow to get there, and maybe I'm wrong (I don't bowhunt) but don't you usually use broadheads? I didn't see anything on the end of that guy's arrow when he drew back.
Posted by: Nick | January 04, 2008 at 08:22 PM
Taking the shot depends on knowing your equipment and having the confidence in your ability at the extreme ranges. Of course a gust of wind or the deer's movement could have made that a very bad shot. I would not have taken the shot for those reasons, but better archers than me could ethically do so.
Posted by: Wes | January 04, 2008 at 08:22 PM
Scott, in order to provide a response, there are three key factors that are not outlined in your scenario:
1) In my practice over the summer, were my groupings consistent?
2) Did the groupings yield arrows with solid penetration (2-3 inches depending on the target type)?
3) What are the current conditions on opening day. Calm winds/clear visibility or windy/low visibility.
If my practice consistently results in good groupings (saucer size), with solid penetration, and the conditions are mild, there is no question I would take the shot. Of course, I don't shoot at 350FPS, so I have no idea what level of penetration you would get at that range? I shoot around 285-290 FPS and have harvested deer at 40 yards with a mechanical broadhead that went clean through both sides. Based on that, by bottom pin is set to 55 yards.
Damn, now you got me thinking about a new bow ;-) If you get a nasty email from my wife, just tell her I will need less time in the woods with the new bow, since my max distance will increase by 50%; thereby increasing my opportunities!
Question for you and anyone else that has experience - How do you determine the penetration you'll get in a deer, based on the penetration you'll get in a particular target? Do you agree this is critical factor to consider? Or would you say that if the arrow will get there on target, it will penetrate enough to kill?
Posted by: OhioHunter | January 04, 2008 at 09:00 PM
Good call on the missing broadhead Nick! It sure looks like a field point. That makes the entire video suspect! As far as the distance, it seems fair. 350FPS would cover 116+ yards in one second. It appears to be just under a second from the sound of release to impact (prior to the kick).
Posted by: OhioHunter | January 04, 2008 at 09:16 PM
Very observant on the broadhead, guys. I assumed that this was a mechanical, but that's just because the footage is so fuzzy.
One thing that perhaps bothered me the most about this shot is that the hunter did not attempt to stop the buck. Of the three guys I know that could make this shot, NONE would have attempted it on a walking critter.
OH Hunter, you ask all the right questions! As for the penetration issue, I would be decidedly biased against mechanical heads on extreme distance shots. That's a personal prejudice.
I will prepare for your Better Half's phone call/email and I've got your back!
Posted by: Scott B | January 04, 2008 at 10:38 PM
Animals are alive and can move, targets can't and don't.
Shots this far run the risk of the animal moving and being shot lord knows where.
I understand 20 yard shots aren't necessary with today's equipment, but this is just irresponsible.
Posted by: jstreet | January 05, 2008 at 01:14 AM
Funny - the distance thing - used to be a time when 200 yds with black powder was very suspect, yet mine is set to bust the 10 ring at 150 and is more than capable of 200.
As for the bow shot, my first pin is for 30 yds. Where are y'alls set? Mine are at 30, 45, and 60.
Good equipment and lots of pratice is the best suggestion.
Posted by: MidnightBanjo | January 05, 2008 at 01:58 AM
Scott, just curious on the mechanical at longer distances? Are you saying they are less likely to penetrate, since they need to open? I guess that makes sense. If I start pushing beyond my current max of 55, I think you might have a point (no pun intended).
MidnightBanjo, my pins are set at 30, 45 and 55.
Posted by: OhioHunter | January 05, 2008 at 11:03 AM
This film is edited. We assume the video of the hunter drawing his bow was consecutively filmed. I say nope. Compare the following:
At 23 seconds into the film, we see the buck walking away. Then the video breaks to the hunter drawing his bow (without a broadhead?) At 27 seconds, the same buck is seen walking (from the spot he was at 23 seconds.) The video of the buck moving was halted for 4 seconds so a clip of the hunter staging a draw could be inserted. (unless the buck froze mid-stride for the camerman - yeah, right) I would guess the same occurs when the hunter is checking yardage.
Also, the background of the hunter at 9 seconds (where he claims 103 yards) does not appear to match the background at 27 seconds (where he shoots). The hunter moved?
Possible (but unlikely) explanation: - two cameramen, one on the target, one on the shooter. (yeah - right)
It is staged and edited. Therefore, it is suspect.
Posted by: jack | January 05, 2008 at 12:04 PM
no broadhead, ive shoot more than my fair share of deer, most all deer that give the high fast leg kicks are rifle shoot
Posted by: dillonaero134d | January 05, 2008 at 02:14 PM
No I wouldn't take this shot, it's unethical and foolish, there are too many varibles that could happen before your arrow gets there like another deer step out or a bad placement on a book buck that would run away never to be found and suffer. The person who took this shot is an unethical hunter much like alot of gun hunter nowadays.I say do it right or go to gun hunting a bow is meant for 60 yds in not 100 + yds.
Posted by: greg | January 05, 2008 at 03:01 PM
Ya know Scott, you've asked a question and only one or two of the bloggers above have actually answered the question: "Would You Take This Shot?"
I have problems shooting "any" kind of bow proficiently over 20 yards, much less 116 yards! A very emphatic "NO!", I (meaning me, Bubba!) would not, under any circumstance, (short of starvation) even "think" of taking that shot!
Many moons back, (make it right at 40 years) I spotted a small buck at about 200 yards. I laid my grandad's Marlin 336 RC in .30-30 across a stump, stared longingly through the Lyman Alaskan 4X scope and wondered about shooting that far! I moved the crosshairs back up to his rack to get a better look, "BANG!!" I had squeezed off a round and didn't realize I was even on the trigger! Yep, I killed 'em. Shot through and through from sternum to hip!
It can happen, but for me, it's an accident!
Bubba
Posted by: Bubba | January 05, 2008 at 05:56 PM
I sent this in because, more than anything, I am curious to know if this is the direction that bow hunting may be going. With bow speeds eagerly creeping past 350 fps, will we in the near future see a large segment of bow hunters taking these kinds of shots? Would the sport lose the early season privileges it now has once shooters are harvesting deer at the same distance as most firearms? As bow hunters we are granted a considerable amount of freedoms because of the difficulty involved with bow hunting and the close proximity needed by many to make accurate shots. Could these freedoms be limited once 100 yard shots become a common practice? I sure hope not. A lot of the fun and enjoyment of bow hunting is being able to get so close to the animal you are hunting. Are we going to reach a day that we will see scopes on bows? Will a governing body soon be regulating arrow speeds? The speed phenomenon definitely brings up some interesting questions. Any thoughts???
Posted by: Chris | January 05, 2008 at 07:31 PM
P.S.
I have no idea who the hunter in the video is or where they are at. I actually stumbled across this clip while looking at a website that sells the PSE X-Force and other bows online.
Posted by: Chris | January 05, 2008 at 07:40 PM
It's not only unethical to take such a shot, its irresponsible to post such a video. This is a bad example for other hunters, and the most likely to be influenced are too young to know better. A responsible hunter would also know better than to give such fuel to anti-hunters.
Posted by: Carl | January 05, 2008 at 09:09 PM
thjis is a fake, that is not a broadhead mechanical or otherwise the backgrounds are different between the rangefinder shot and when he draws the bow. Furthermore 103 yds at a moving target? I don't care how fast your bow shoots, that ain't happening. I also cannot see the penetration of the arrrow and besides the deer reacted much more like a deer shot with a bullet than an arrow
Posted by: Elkslayer | January 05, 2008 at 10:33 PM
I never shoot at a moving animal with a bow, unless it's a follow up shot or small game. I have hunted with longbow recurve and compound they all have their advantages.Distance over 100yrds. are ok at a target. In school we use to shoot at ground targets. I have no diagreement at my fellow hunters anti-hunters do enough to us . Arrow penetration I shot a late season woodchuck @ 78 yrds and it went right thru, the back of the hole was what stopped it .Just remember kill it then grill it .
Posted by: THE BRAIN SURGEON | January 06, 2008 at 01:15 AM
NO I WOULD NOT TAKE THIS SHOT. THERE IS A CHANCE THIS GUY HAS AN ODER PROBLEM THEREFOR HE CANT GET WITHIN A 100 YARDS OF A DEER? SO GOOD LUCK PUTTING MEAT IN THE FREEZER AND TROPHIES ON YOUR WALLS. STOP IT!
Posted by: wayde | January 06, 2008 at 12:05 PM
I have soooo many comments that I don't even know where to begin. First of all just so you know where I am coming from I have been shooting a bow since I was 11 years old (made it myself) and have taken 23 bull elk with a bow. Four of them scored over 350 P&Y. I have shot over 150 deer with a bow. SO, I know a little bit about what I am going to say.
Ist I want to comment on some of the comments posted here. I wish people would read more closely before they make a comment.
Ist off it wasn't 116 yards, it was 103 yards... I would never take a shot at an animal that far NO MATTER HOW GOOD I THOUGHT I WAS. And at 103 yards you aren't going to see the impact of the arrow (I shot an elk at 50 yards, Broadside in a clear cut with no wind and standing still. The mule deer buck in this video was MOVING with BRUSH all around him. Only someone with very little regard for the animal they hunt would do that. And while I am on this will I mention something about the new bow from PSE. A bow shop that I know got one in and there was some problems with it and when they called the factory they wouldn't fix the problem...
Several others said that it was a field point. If you look close and play it back you will see the slightest indication of a machanical blade at the top of the arrow (look close now and see if you don't see it also) that still doesn't give that person the right to shoot that far... The guy was shooting 4" or 5" vanes. If he is that good of a shoot he should have heard of the Blazer broadhead vanes by now. And if you haven't tried them you should. If your bow is set up correctly you will see amazing things when you shoot these vanes. A test for you. Fletch up 3 arrows with blazer vanes and shoot your 4 or 5 inch vanes agains't them. Here is what will happen. (use the same pin now) your 4 and 5 inch vanes will drop considerably more at the same distance than the blazer vanes. I know what some of you are thinking, how can you get 2" vanes to steer a broadhead, right? compare them the B vanes are stiffer than your longer vanes. Anyway, check them out and you won't go back to your longer vane
And for those of you that have never had a deer do the mule kick after being shot, it does happen (twice out of the more than 150 deer that I've harvested) And something else here that doesn't have to do with this BUT; When you say kill Please use the word harvest and PLEASE when you take photo's of the deer that you "harvest" (PLEASE PUT THE TONGUE BACK IN IT'S MOUTH SO I DON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT IT)
Here is my email address if you have any comments or questions that you would like to ask me [email protected]
And please, let's all be responsible hunters no matter what weapon or game we choose.
Posted by: John | January 06, 2008 at 04:11 PM
I only shoot that far with a REMINGTON® firearm using BUSHNELL scopes and REMINGTON® ACCUTIP™ BULLETS from a 7mm REMINGTON® Magnum and wearing SCENT-LOK® clothing with DANNER BOOTS. Go BLAZER VANES ... or something.
Posted by: John | January 07, 2008 at 10:03 AM
Absolutley not.
Posted by: Tommy S. | January 07, 2008 at 11:54 AM
That buck's rear leg kick sure looks like a rifle shot to me.
and no I would never never attempt anything past 50 yds on a deer and I consider myself a good shot and I practice a lot.
Posted by: Clark | January 07, 2008 at 03:30 PM
QUOTE: "When you say kill Please use the word harvest and PLEASE when you take photo's of the deer that you "harvest" (PLEASE PUT THE TONGUE BACK IN IT'S MOUTH SO I DON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT IT)"
Half dozen of one, six of the other. To "harvest" hay, you must cut it. To "harvest" a deer, you must kill it. Stop being such an apologetic wimp.
Posted by: John D | January 07, 2008 at 05:01 PM
The deer in the video was hit with a rifle. The kick and tail clamp make me think that anyway.
Posted by: CL | January 07, 2008 at 09:52 PM
What is the point of bow hunting? Rifles are quicker, less fallible, and more humane. Bows and arrows are barely a step above spears. They are more "challenging" but remember that hunting is not a game. Its a life and death activity that isn't about being fancy and being thrilled by hard shots and risky manuevers.
Posted by: Ben | January 08, 2008 at 05:38 PM