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May 23, 2008

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Discussion Topic: Alaska Governor To Sue Over Polar Bear Listing

From the Anchorage Daily News:

The State of Alaska will sue to challenge the recent listing of polar bears as a threatened species, Gov. Sarah Palin said Wednesday.

She and other Alaska elected officials fear a listing will cripple oil and gas development in prime polar bear habitat off the state's northern and northwestern coasts. . . .

Climate models that predict continued loss of sea ice, the main habitat of polar bears, during summers are unreliable, Palin said.

The announcement drew a strong response from the primary author of the listing petition.

"She's either grossly misinformed or intentionally misleading, and both are unbecoming," said Kassie Siegel of the Center for Biological Diversity. "Alaska deserves better. . . ."

"Even the Bush administration can't deny the reality of global warming," she said. "The governor is aligning herself and the state of Alaska with the most discredited, fringe, extreme viewpoints by denying this."

What do you think?

Comments

Sherm

Gov. Sarah Palin is right 31,000 scientist and PHD's agree that man, can not cause globe warming, and that there are more polar bears now then there were 20 years ago.
I think tha Kassie Siegel of the center for biological diversity is grossly misinformed or intentiionally misleading.


Mike Diehl

Most of those 31,000 are neither scientists nor PhDs. Most of the ones who are "scientists" or "PhDs" don't know jack about climatology. Their collective opinion is about as authoritative as a survey of dentists' opinions about the best design for a nuclear power plant.

Me=TotalAwesome

Hey fellow hunters, did you guys hear that Michigan is going to be having a week long antlerless season? Being a Michigan Resident i did some research but i want some other input from you guys. Please tell me what you think.

Thanks.

John McLaughlin

I wouldn't go after the dentists to much. After all their opinion is as good as yours. Ps: don't get a toothache.

Mike Diehl

"After all their opinion is as good as yours."

Depends on what they're opining about. I'd trust their opinion on a toothache. I wouldn't presume to opine about a toothache since I'm not a dentist -- which after all was my point. The 31K signators are for the overwhelming part a legion of people with no expertise on climate change; therefore the petition and the collective opinion that it expresses can be safely ignored by any rational person.

johnl

That would be as opposed to by the mental giants of global warming (which is now climate change, to cover any eventuality we used to refer to as weather!). Their ranks include such luminaries as Al Gore (the high priest) who flunked out of divinity school and studied climatology at home (cause he was out of a job), where he has plenty of room, or Madonna, Sheryl Crow, Bonnie Prince Charlie, Rosie O'Donnell, Willie Nelson, I have to quit, I'm laughing too hard. The list of celebrities with no experience in science, climate, or even dentistry, is too long.
Science and now politics based on tabloid celebrity.
Soundbite news.
I actually had someone tell me this weekend that they thought the earthquake in China was caused because of all the oil being pumped out of the earth, which makes as much sense as the "preachers" that spout off about disasters (floods, hurricanes, locusts?) being God's way of punishing men for poor sex practices.
I think I read somewhere that the earth was formed by cataclysmic events and changes long before man ever arrived. Wasn't there a major volcanic eruption recently?
Why haven't the "warmists" put a stop to that?
Aren't Mt St Helens, Kilawea, and others still smoking and flowing? They put out way more pollution than my Ford. Let Algore try to stop that, not tell me how to live, eat,drive.
They're all only trying to get into your pocket.
Reject 'em all.
Don't most of these "progressives" also belong to the church of evolution? Who's to say the polar bears are not supposed to evolve?
Why are they the ones to declare that the .6 0f 1 degree change in the last 100 years is a man-made disaster that demands you kneel?
Maybe that's how monkeys evolved into man so long ago, in one of those heating/cooling periods.
Aren't they also the ones who constantly tell us that we as Americans have no right to tell other peoples how to live.
Well, GET OUTTA MY FACE.
Thanks.
Bye
Oh P.S. As an aside, I'm just as irritated at those on the Right, including now John McCain, who go along with this nonsense to buy votes and press.

johnl

Forgot one thing.
Go get 'em Governor.
(just too bad have to pay lawyers for it).
P.S. Those who are so worried about those poor 1,000 pound bears, go on up there and pick one out, pet a couple, see which one you like. Wear some tenderizer, they might like you better'n seals.
Maybe they'll make a movie about you like that guy with the grizzlies.

Matt

Mike Deahl,

I agree with you. Most of the "scientists" who say global warming is not happening are usually hired by Bush or the oil companies. Oh, and sepaking of oil companies, please ignore that they are making record profits.The real reason gas is so high is because we are not drilling in ANWR. Yeah, right.

Doug Richards

I spent my own nickle to visit Deadhorse in the 90's and was amazed by the nesting waterfowl. I had thought that a dead zone would exist along the road and around the town. Eiders, white fronted geese, pintails, shovelers, etc, there were birds nesting everywhere. I could have killed 50 birds with rocks, if there were any rocks. Animals in that country don't pay any attention to people. After 30 years of development there seems to be little problem in that country. I say the oil companies have done a great job up there. Gov Palin knows what those jobs mean to AK. I live in upstate NY where bald eagles and osprey were extinct in the 70's. Now we have exploding populations. The fish and the water are so much cleaner than they were. We can drill and we can have a clean environment. Mark one eyeballs know its true.

Doug Richards

Want a new Lab pup? Sorry that's a co2 emitting entity. There is a federal law against new emissions, without a permit, gotta protect the polar bears, you know. Go Gov Palin. I think the federal government is in deep doo doo over this one. We need more data on GW. This is a civil rights, and economic monster and I hope Governor Palin wins this.

BA

Governor Sarah Palin for President. A terrific idea. I agree with her 100%. There are more Polar Bears now than in the last 30 years.
Years ago an old Navy Chief told me that when he went to the South Pole with Adm. Byrd, that they found there had been tropics there at one time. Now it's been proven. Climate Change is as natural as the hair on your head. Al Gore just wants you to "BELIEVE" that he invented the wheel. There's no such thing as a Climate Change Expert unless it's a Weather Man, and we all know how reliable they are. haha......Go Governor Palin...... 73's, Halleleujah, I'm for you....

Wes

Here we go, Big Oil vs The Environment, Round One.....anybody taking bets?

Bob

wes, I predict a stalemate. (Does it seem like we've covered this ground before?)

paul Wilke

I don't know s**t about "global warming". But i've noticed ( since the 1950's) that glaciers are melting all over the world, some have even disappeared. I'd have to guess that means that they are melting. Dismiss "global warming" if you want to, but be sure to claim that the world is flat at the same time.
Oil exploration can take place without being a threat to any thing, fight for stronger controls and leave the fate of Polor Bears to the sportsmen. Like every other game species we'll be the one to protect them in the end.

CTB

Im pretty sure Bush spends (and im serious I saw this somewhere) not much more than a million dollars a year on climate research, so to say that his scientists say there is no such thing as global warming is pretty ridiculous. The truth is nobody knows if there is global warming or not.

dw

Wish we'd had a little global warming when I was young. Maybe then Mom wouldn't have talked Dad into moving "Outside" after 3 weeks of 70 below with 6 kids in the house. Maybe I'd still be in Fairbanks.

The globe warms, the globe cools. Seems to have done a whole lot of that in the past w/out Anthropogenic input. That's about all we really know.

Not sure we're really that significant -- esp relative to Sun activity, Volcano emmisions and Cow or Dinosaur farts.

Clay Cooper

First of all, all the pollutants that enter Alaska is defiantly not from the United States, it’s from Europe and Russia!
Tell me, if there is Global Warming, then why the oceans are are cooling!
One more thing, tell me why did I see more wildlife along the Alaska Pipeline than any place else!!
I love to ask, what do you know about The Arctic National Wildlife Range (ANWR). Nearest tree is no place to be seen and there is no native caribou in the area! Caribou are like nomadic cows and they walk right in front within inches of the tour bus front bumper in Denali National Park and graze along the roads and highways just like deer do!

One more thing, has anyone actually watched Alaska Bears feed, rolling rocks the size of ATVs and having a field day on eating critters, for 4 years I watched this!

Clay Cooper

“Our job is to give people not what they want, but what we decide they ought to have.”
-Richard Salant, former President of CBS News

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.”
-Thomas Jefferson

“Reason obeys itself; and ignorance does whatever is dictated to it.”
-Thomas Paine, Rights of Man ("Conclusion")

“Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.”
-Noam Chomsky, MIT Institute Professor (linguistics), and neo-Nazi of a sort

I'm outa here!

YooperJack

I sure can't compete with Clay Cooper on words of wisdom. I can, however, read a thermometer. Right now its 35 F. Please tell me again, about this global warming! Its really rare to be buring carbon fuels for home heat AFTER Memorial Day. I believe a lot of folks in the U.P. have lost tomatoes and pepper plants. Now with this global warming, shouldn't this year be WARMER than last year?
YooperJack

Clay Cooper

YooperJack
HOWA’YA!
Listen, it’s not about the word of wisdom I say, it’s what I learn from history from those, I draw wisdom and strength from those I believe in especially the Bible Sir!

Yes I know Jesus place one hand on my shoulder and the other over my mouth at time I say!

If 50 million say the same thing that is wrong, that’s 50 million that is wrong!

I remember when I was a kid the summers were hot and the winters are cold. A lady today said its global warming and I said you’re wrong and explained to here that the earth’s atmosphere is cleaner now than decades ago and because of the lack of foreign matter it doesn’t hold heat as it did therefore in the evening it cools faster, moisture condenses and it rains, the air condenses and falls rapidly to the ground causing horrific winds able to snap telephone poles like bread sticks. No time to edit, gota run!
73’s

Mike Diehl

I'm betting "Big Oil" will stay out of it. This has nothing at all to do with Global Warming or Big Oil. It's merely about a few wealthy Alaskans like Paling looking at Federal Property (which is owned by citizens of the lower 48 and HI as well as Alaskans, but you wouldn't know it from how the land is managed) and rubbing their hands together gleefully at the thought of enriching themselves on the US taxpayer's back and saddling the rest of us with the cleanup bill.

If ANWR is drilled, watch most of the oil get sent to Southeast Asia. The last time there was a ban on exporting North Slope Oil the then Alaskan gov and senators whined like underfed dogs about the "unfairness" of US Taxpayers actually benefitting from the use of US Taxpayer Owned oil in Alaska.

As for Global Warming. The science is rock solid. Far better than Chimpy McShrub's intel on Iraq, or the promises of your average Cato Institute or Heritage Foundation wackjob.

MPN

wes,
$50 that this will never have a winner. You? anyone care to up the bet.

MPN

Bob

Determining the validity of global warming based on a day's, or even a season's temperature in one particular location is akin to asking a single person on the street in Omaha, Nebraska who they are going to vote for in the presidential election, and believing that's a good indicator of who will be elected.

Global warming is about minute changes in temperature over long periods of time over the entire globe. The only way to measure this is with huge amounts of empirical data. Sorry Yooper, but your (or anyone elses) anecdotes about "burning fossil fuels after labor somewhere in upper Michigan" just don't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

johnl

Bob,
Well said.
"Global" changes take long periods of time, much longer than algore's been in our collective conscious, and there ain't a dang thing we can do about it.
If the earth's been around as long as they say, and been through as many changes, we're just a blip on the clock, and may only be here that long. To paraphrase the immortal words of Pogo, "don't take it so serious son, it ain't nohow permanent"
Certainly the winters were much colder and the snow was much deeper (but, perhaps I was shorter) when I was a youngster in Nebraska, but then we didn't have gortex, synthetic down, waterproof boots etc. The best I had as a kid was a pair of "mickey Mouse boots", the all rubber lace-ups one of my brothers brought back from Korea.
Todays high temp at my house in Nebraska is 55 degrees, on May 27th. Is this an indicator of a coming ice age? It was 92 two days ago. ????????????
I know back in the '50's the summers seemed to be hotter, but I suspect it had something to do with no air conditioning, when we drove our cars with the windows all completely down.
I'm recycling with both hands, and as fast as I can, but it don't seem to be making no difference.
So, both the GW and AGW folks can leave me alone.
johnl




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