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Discussion Topic: Running Dogs For Deer
From Virginia’s Times-Dispatch:
The Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries says it is increasingly hearing complaints, often from people new to rural life, about noisy hounds straying onto their land, often followed by [deer] hunters retrieving their dogs. . . .
So the department, assisted by Virginia Tech researchers, is conducting a study to determine how serious the problem is and possibly to suggest solutions . . . .
The study has some hound lovers howling.
Kirby Burch of Powhatan County, who led Virginia's parks agency under Republican Gov. George Allen, believes Gov. Timothy M. Kaine, a Democrat, is pressuring the game department to restrict or ban hunting with dogs.
"Our worst-case scenario is . . . they are going to end hound hunting within five years in Virginia," said Burch, who represents a group called the Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance.
Check out the full story and tell us your reaction.
I've never run dogs for deer, but I have lived in the country and know for a fact a good thing gets ruined when city folk (yankees) move out to the country to "buy some land." Might need to run the dogs after them!!
Posted by: TommyNash | January 07, 2008 at 04:19 PM
I know - people from the city shouldn't be able to buy land in the country. WTF?
I guess I will have to move back to the city and give up my acreage.
No chance.
I guess I have no right to expect to live, on my land, free of tresapassing dogs and men with guns. Again - WTF?
We have been over this before.
I don't want to ban anything - but I hate using dogs to hunt anything besides birds/ducks.
I know they train the dogs hard.
I know they love what they do.
I know they say they can't do it another way.
I CHOOSE QUIET METHODS. I choose to leave little or no impact to the area I hunt.
I don't trespass, and I sure as hell don't want anyone trespassing on the land I pay for and take care of.
I know many dog hunters, and I know there are good ones and bad ones.
Again, I won't say ban it, but I do hate it.
Posted by: Tommy S. | January 07, 2008 at 04:35 PM
Now there will be a slew of ignorant, mean-spirited remarks about killing each other's dogs and hours of difficult training.
Let's spare it and just agree to disagree now.
Dog hunters - try to keep your dogs on your land.
Anti dog hunters - don't shoot the dog - the trainer is to blame for releasing it where he dang well knew it would be on someone else's property in minutes.
Posted by: Tommy S. | January 07, 2008 at 04:43 PM
To each his own. I think the larger problem is the suburbanites strectching suburbia out in to the country. They always have the "this is how we did it where we used to live" kind of attitude. They are kinda fun to mess with however, from a "welcome to the country" point of view.
Posted by: TommyNash | January 07, 2008 at 05:00 PM
I have my own pack of dogs but mostly for bear and wolves( im from north of the border). Its impossible to run dogs without them tresspasing on someones land. For deer we hunt large blocks of crown land so we dont run into this. The training of hunting hounds is starting to be a lost art but as a land owner myself i expect people to ask permission and do their best to keep the dogs off other peoples property. It cant be helped in some cases but i wont run dogs if i cant get all the landowners to agree within at least a two mile range.
Posted by: Dennis | January 07, 2008 at 06:12 PM
We've been over this before haven't we? Don't really care, just don't run them across my land without accepting losses. How about Hillary whine/crying in NewHampshire to her supporters about how much she cares for our country and our children, Ha, BS, she dosen't want to be the first democratic frontrunner to lose to a African American. Could you imagine a Omama/Opra Winfrey democratic ticket????? Oh my GOODNESS!!!
Posted by: Walt Smith | January 07, 2008 at 07:03 PM
Dennis,
If the "hound" hunters in my area would ask, I might change my mind!
The largest (unfortunately) percentage of hound owners locally, literally turn their dogs loose anywhere, anytime! Once you see these individuals, you understand why they have such a mindset. I really don't like stereotyping people, but it's really hard not to when you see them!
They seem to feel that it's their "right" to hunt hogs or coyotes, regardless of boundaries! They (for the most part) are scruffy looking characters, normally sucking on a beer bottle. One local has a small pick up with a rail welded around the hood. They drive the back roads with a "strike" dog tethered to the rail. When the dog "strikes", they just stop and release the pack! One group drove into a wet, 240 acre wheat field. When confronted by the land owner, "We 'uz jist gittin' or dawgs. I seen one uv 'em out here so we thought we'd just drive out an git 'em. It's too f------ wet to walk. We cudna tore up that much wheat. 'Sides, we run a bunch a hogs outta here! What's th big deal!"
Bubba
Posted by: Bubba | January 07, 2008 at 07:04 PM
Too true. I dont get to hunt very often exept when i travel from Norfolk back home to central north carolina. Most of these hunts are complete waste because of dog hunters letting dogs onto the land and yelling for them at the gates to the land. You have to wonder if it is an accident when it occurs every saturday of hunting season.
Posted by: Ryan | January 07, 2008 at 07:42 PM
Bubba
Yeah we have those types of guys up here to. I may associate with these guys if i have to but i see hunting with hounds as a privelege not a right. Before i was old enough to have my dogs people were running them around and they were getting into our beef herd but my dad put a stop to that. A little secret those radio collars are darned expensive so you can shoot those without hurting the dog. These guys soon get the message that it would be cheaper to hunt somewhere else.
I am the only one with dogs in about tenty miles so most of the land owners know me personally from auction sales and the like and i will also ask and make sure that if my dogs casue any problems i will right the damage or if i have to shoot the dog. Im a farmer first and a hunter second.
I have heard all the excuses myself when i find dogs on my land that shouldnt be there. I refuse to hunt with any of those yoyos that cant respect property rights.
We all get tarred with the same brush unfortuantly.But rightly most of them deseve it.
Dennis
Posted by: Dennis | January 07, 2008 at 09:25 PM
running deer with dogs, sounds like a southern thing
Posted by: brian | January 07, 2008 at 09:40 PM
Personally I dont care to hunt deer with dogs. I have done it in south AL and it is steeped in tradition and revered in some places. I think the problem is there arent the large one owner tracts of land there used to be earlier in this century. Therein lies the problem. You own 5000 or 6000 acres you rarely have a dog run off your property. I believe running deer with dogs will be no more sooner than later.
Posted by: GREG | January 07, 2008 at 10:25 PM
Lots of changes in this country lately...not all of them good if you ask me. Loss of land access is one of those things we could all do without.
Posted by: | January 07, 2008 at 11:36 PM
I think the Kirby Burch is jumping the gun. He is the only one talking about banning dog hunting. If alot of folk complained, The Gov. ought to be checking it out. The fact that Virgina Tech is helping with the study is a bonus. As for the city folk moving out to the country they have all the right in the world, and I can't blame them, I would too if I could afford it.
Posted by: Jason | January 08, 2008 at 04:29 AM
If more of the hound hunters in my area were like Dennis, it probably wouldn't be a big deal. There is a WMA nearby covered with feral hogs. The game biologist urge people to run their "hog dogs" outside hunting season. Most won't, they don't like it because of the remote access and they can't "drive" to or close to their baying hounds.
Wish I had a solution, I'd offer it, but alas!
Bubba
Posted by: Bubba | January 08, 2008 at 06:19 AM
You know Bubba, now that you mention it I dont believe I have heard any complaints about hog dogs any here in AR or in AL? the complaints have always been about deer dogs, splain me? Had a situation on a deer lease in south AL, years ago, with deer dogs. Our lease was on the state line with FL. Their season opened the weekend before ours and they would purposely run their dogs on us. We would spend that weekend rounding up dogs. Aint ashamed to say we kept a few and gave them good homes. Had some unpleasant confrontations with the owners too.They didnt know nothin! Well a dog doesnt swim a small river, Perdido, without some encouragement in my opinion. Guess there is no easy answer?
Posted by: GREG | January 08, 2008 at 09:09 AM
I have had coon and bear hounds for many years and am a member of a local bear group and have yet to see a dog that can read "Posted" signs. Having said that, agreed, there are those bad eggs that will turn loose where ever they bloody well please and hang the consequences. Those among us that don't thrill to hound music need to remember that we are all hunters and need to stick together instead of throwing each other under the bus or one day there will be nobody left to speak up for the bird hunters, bow hunters, etc. when the anti's show up for them, and believe me, show up they will. This assault on hound hunting is just the latest volley against us and if we allow them a victory here, it will simply embolden them in their next attack. As to you city folks who want to move to the country, please remember that the dogs, the hunters, the farm smells, etc. were here first, we didn't invite you to join us, and if you don't like our way of life, we'll be happy to help you pack. No disrespect intended, but if we all moved to the city and became your neighbor, would you change your ways to suit us? I doubt it.
Posted by: 007 | January 08, 2008 at 09:13 AM
I'm not for or against hound hunting. I'm from the northern midwest, and as far as I know nobody hunts with hounds up here. I don't like noisy hunting so I probably wouldn't like it. The only way I would use a dog to hunt any big game is to track something that is wounded.
I'm not concerned about it either way, but if I ever seen someone else's hounds scaring the wildlife on my property I'd give the owner one warning and then I'd start shooting dogs. I don't think I'd ever see that day where I live.
Posted by: Dylan | January 08, 2008 at 09:47 AM
I am a bowhunter. I love getting close to mature deer. But man-alive do those running-dogs make it hard. Just puts ever deer in the forest on a nocturnal routine. That beeing said, the few times I've been dogging were amazingly fun. Just keep the dogs on your land or in the National Forests so I can bowhunt my plot in peace.
Posted by: | January 08, 2008 at 09:59 AM
The anonymous poster above hit the nail on the head.
It isn't about whether or not you are from the city, or the country; it isn't about telling each other what is ethical or not; it is about having privacy on the land you live on or lease to hunt.
Dog hunters wouldn't want stand hunters popping up in their terrain would they? Or still-stalkers walking through the forest an hour or two before they got to let their dogs go?
Of course NOT!
And 007, as far as someone telling someone else what to do.
If I ever had a neighbor that shows/proves to me that I am doing something that is DIRECTLY AFFECTING THEM ON THEIR PROPERTY - I WOULD CHANGE IT.
IT IS CALLED RESPECT AND BEING NEIGHBORLY.
And dog hunting directly affects those off dog hunters property by disrupting the wildlife, the privacy of the landowners, interaction with landowner's pets and much more.
True - wildlife is public property, but if dog hunters can run deer off my property - legally - to get the deer in shooting lanes on their property, well I guess I can be creative on how to *legally* make deer hunting harder for them; like shooting constantly at about 4:00pm til dark on the furthest edge of my land, where it borders said dog hunter's land, after I have filled my tags of course, and don't care to scare every damx deer into a nocturnal state til the late summer time.
Now wouldn't that suck?
It happens alot in some areas of the state I hunt in.
Jacksonville NC for one.
Posted by: Tommy S. | January 08, 2008 at 10:13 AM
I would never do anything to disrupt someone's hunt though. It has happened to me far too many times.
Karma.
Think of it this way. If you know someone is sitting in a stand, or still stalking, or dog hunting on an adjacent peice of property...
Think how you would feel if they did something you KNEW hurt your chances to bag a deer.
Put yourself in that stand.
You have been there since an hour before dawn..all was quiet...temp - 22 degrees- saw deer in the darkess driving to the spot...you sit 2 hours...then four dogs come through raising cane and chasing deer all over and your bow is useless! The events can take sometime to transpire - I have witnessed it in Roxboro, Jacksonville...the list goes on.
Or dog hunter...you have trained your dogs for years...they are tight...you have a peice of land you own and cannot wait to turn em loose...then opening morning...your neighbor decides to sight in all his guns...til he hears no more dogs.
It can go both ways folks. Respect your neighbor - that is the bottom line.
Use a law to let your dogs trample other's ground if you want to...just don't expect anyone near you that doesn't dog hunt to care for it...or you..whether they came from the city or lived in the country their whole lives.
I know both types.
Most want peice and quiet.
Nothing more...Nothing less.
An occassional shot...most folks in the country could give a rats axx.
Posted by: Tommy S. | January 08, 2008 at 10:24 AM
Unfortunately,for the dog hunters, I believe the anwser is going to be that they will have very specific and smaller places to run them until there is no where left. I know dogs cant read but some of the owners might be able to. Relax just a joke. As said above just respect your neighbor as long as you get the same!
Posted by: GREG | January 08, 2008 at 10:34 AM
Righto Greg,
And I hate to hear of people shooting dogs. They aren't doing anything wrong.
Hey Greg! How about this to getem' goin' (laughing sarcastically),
Hey instead of shooting the dogs, why don't some of you guys try to TALK TO YOUR NEIGHBORS!
That would be a sobering experience I am sure.
Posted by: Tommy S. | January 08, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Alright Tommy dont get them started young man!!LOL How about the buckshot issue with dog hunting? I can stir the pot almost as good as you!LOL
Posted by: GREG | January 08, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Heck throw the use of buckshot into this debate and it will get really interesting.
Dennis
Posted by: Dennis | January 08, 2008 at 11:00 AM
Hey Greg, that is why I put in the bit about laughing sarcastically!
I ain't trying to stir anything! I just want those dang guys to quit shooting defenseless dogs!
Talk to their neighbors instead of shooting ole dowgys!
Piss poor crap!
Posted by: Tommy S. | January 08, 2008 at 11:41 AM