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January 18, 2008

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Discussion Topic: Are Big-Game Hunters For Giuliani?

They are according to this article, entitled (categorically) “Big Game Hunters For Giuliani,” from the Washington Post:
Rudy Giuliani's last stop Tuesday night in Florida [was] at one of the strangest political venues you'll ever see on the campaign trail . . . "Thistle Dew Lodge."

The mayor . . . had spoken beneath the protruding head of a titanic 14-point elk. His audience comprised some 130 members of the Safari Club International, North Florida Chapter.

Big game hunters.

"But I also enjoy duck hunting," stipulated Tyrie Boyer, 83, a former judge. "I've taken everything from an elephant to a squirrel." He said he liked Giuliani's position on guns, small government and taxes, and "just about became convinced tonight."

Most of you are big-game hunters, of course. So I thought you might like to weigh in here. Check out the full article and give us your thoughts.

Comments

YooperJack

Mike
Please read "Dereliction of Duty"
I beleive that the Author's name is Robert Patterson, but I might be wrong. He is a retired Air Force Colonel. He also carried the nuclear football for WJC and was by his side for some years. He documents some of the lapses that I described.
YooperJack

SilverArrow

Mike
'The shot' either of the guys would have (willingly) taken was with a gun, not a nuke; they would have put Bin Lauden out of our misery permanently! 'Socks' wouldn't go for it. This isn't the only such occurence, just one of the better documented and therefore credible.
SA

SilverArrow

Mike
As far as Pakistan, there is so much at stake and the decision to go in would be tantamount to starting W W III. I don't think any of us would want to be in Mr. Bush's place at the moment.
Yes there are tough decisions faced by Presidents in every administration, no doubt Clinton faced them too (and didn't always make bad ones).
Pakistan does need to be given time to bring things under control itself, they are ostensibly cooperating with us. Any incursion by US Forces would end cooperation by Pakistan and possibly most of the rest of the Muslim World.
SA

YooperJack

I get a bit scared anytime someone starts talking about going into Pakistan. This is a real snakepit. No matter what we do there, its a loser.
YooperJack

Mike Diehl

"As far as Pakistan, there is so much at stake and the decision to go in would be tantamount to starting W W III."

I don't agree. It would however be a nasty mud pit. I do not doubt that similar calculations were driving our policy vis a vis missile strikes in Tunisia.

I think that Pakistan pays lipservice to assisting us. They're not going after the Talib in Pak and they're not willing to let us do it. The Paki gov has created a safe haven where the Talib can fin rest, refuge, comfort, aid, refit, resupply, recruits and retraining. Thank god for India, IMO.

Mike Diehl

"Please read 'Dereliction of Duty'

No thanks. I've heard so many smear jobs directed at President Clinton that I have no confidence in anyone making an accusation that they aren't willing to prove in court.

SilverArrow

Mike
Nowhere did I say anything about missile strikes in Tunisia. I have not read anywhere about that ever being part of the equation. The people I have spoken with and what I have read regarding the incident only mentioned that Bin Lauden was vulnerable to being shot at that point.
A 'preemptive' missile strike on the capital of a nation with whom we are at peace would have been a very serious violation of sovereignty and international law. If that was what the intell guys were calling for I can see why it didn't happen. My understanding of the situation was that two individual 'spooks' had the drop on Bin Lauden and just needed the nod.
It won't surprise anyone reading this blog to know that Bill Clinton is one of my very least favorite Presidents but there have been so many hatchet jobs done on the guy without anyone having the balls to actually substantiate charges for a court that I must -- painfully -- agree with Mike Diehl on this issue.
SA

SilverArrow

Mike
I also believe India is tempering the situation in Pakistan somewhat. Or should I say Pakistan's vulnerability to India is, I am not sure India is overtly threatening to jump in on our side if the stuff hits the fan. I doubt that they would, honestly, as their people would be very divided on doing so. Pakistan does realize that if a war with the US weakened and distracted its defense mechanism then India might well move to retake contested territories and perhaps a buffer zone too.
My concern with any aggressive action into Pakistan, or Iran for that matter, is that we would completely alienate even the most moderate muslim nations. Muslim uprisings are currently happening in former Soviet areas as well as India itself. I don't know how much more it will take to fan the embers into full scale bonfire of epic proportions; World War Three.
SA

SilverArrow

Meant to say I agree with Mike on not caring to read that book.
SA

YooperJack

SA
Two days after 9/11, there was a picture of Hillary, on the floor of the U.S. Sentate. She was holding up a copy of the NY Times. In letters app. 3" high, the headline read"Bush Knew". She had a smile from ear to ear. If anyone believes that she could be presidential, they certainly have drank too much KoolAid.
YJ

SilverArrow

YJ
Hilabitch should be behind bars anyway, that just cements the deal. Actually she should be swinging from the same gallows as Saddam was, but we collectively ain't got the guts.
I am not too concerned with her now, watch the next few days as her campaign implodes.
SA

SilverArrow

Yoop
I do think we all agree that Pakistan is a quagmire none of us want to be into.
SA

Bubba

If you think Pakistan is a quagmire, think of a nation that is actually larger in area than the U.S., higher population than the U.S., a more fanatical populace than the U.S. and you will have India. They are so divided within that the "tribe" that protects their PM is also the tribe that assassinated the PM. If you think Catholics, Muslims, Islamics and Hindus won't gather together to "smite" the good 'ol U. S. of A., you are all wet! All in the name of their selected God!!

Bubba

SilverArrow

Bubba
India is more interested in economically distroying us with our own tools! Many of the customer service calls you make these days are answered in Bangalore, India. American companies are complicit in this, scary.
Would they attempt to fight us militarily, doubtful. Could they sustain action against us, no. Remember this would not be conventional, ground pounder, warfare; we would quickly disable their aviation assets and missile launch facilities then basically disengage to give them a moment to realize that it is not in their best interest to continue.
Yes this would be a global disaster. India would find it difficult to find allies for the very reasons you mentioned; so many internal factions and the religious aspects.
No, India will most likely continue on an economic track toward 'conquering' the US.
SA

SilverArrow

Meant to also add: Many other jobs have also emmigrated from the US to India; computer aided design, accounting, engineering, internet marketing. In short any job that doesn't require being physically at a location here is being done there.
SA

YooperJack

SA & Bubba
I'm much more worried about a war between Pakistan and India, then about either country bothering us. Indiahas the religous problem in that part of that country is Muslim while most is Hindu. Pakistan is almost entirely Muslim and there is great sympathy there for "liberating" those oppressed Muslims. Since both countries possess nuclear weaponry, things will get hairy. Also in this equation is the pseudo-alliance between all Islamic countries, which could mean that a war between two could evolve into a war between twenty. I believe that the presence of Isreal has been a lightning rod for this region. Muslims channel their hate and aggression towards Isreal and tend to forget their "infidel" neighbor to the east.
I also believe that the volume of trade that the west (particularly the USA) does with India has held that nation together. In spite of the religous difference and several ethnic divisions, that country has been at relative peace. Take away their trade surplus and you get high unemployment. With that factored in, you get riots, anarchy and revolution.
I think the most critical area of expertise that the new POTUS will need is foriegn affairs.
YJ

Tommy S.

Mike your insinuations are getting old. I never suggested that...
"that political reform in DC should come in a hail of bullets."

That is your take on what I posted. But you took it out of context like only an inept journalist could.

I said that I thought the only way to get campaign finance reform, was to break up old money lines, and that *I thought* that would only happen if we heard gun shots.

But I guess if you want to *insinuate* that I have the power to start a revolution by my *vague cry for a revolution* - I will say thank you. I thought I was a powerful writer.
You should avoid insinuations that undermine your claims. Keep defending your possible candidate's mistakes by pointing out their counterpart's in the past though. It makes you look old and bleak.

Tommy S.

Oh and Mikey,

You know - you are probably right about one thing though. The dept. of homeland security probably should be looking at a blog on GUN NUTS for the terrorists hiding in plain sight!
It would be better than looking in our schools for the kids drawing pictures of guns.

Moron.

SilverArrow

C-Ya!
as they say when the Yankees hit a homerun! Well Rudy you bunted foul on the third strike! C-ya!
SA

YooperJack

SA
Didn't help much that he took the first two pitches (Iowa, New Hampshire) with the bat on his shoulder. He, like John Edwards, will be hard to miss!
YJ

SilverArrow

LOL Yooper!




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