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January 17, 2008

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Discussion Topic: American Cities Vs. Gun Rights

As the Supreme Court plans to hear arguments on the constitutionality of Washington. D.C.'s handgun ban in March, a number of U.S. cities are already pleading their case.

From the Seattle Post-Intelligencer:
[Eleven] U.S. cities are warning the Supreme Court that gun-control laws around the nation would be jeopardized if the justices decide to eliminate the local District of Columbia ban on handguns.

In a legal brief filed with the high court, the cities . . . argue that they suffer "disproportionately" from firearm violence and should be able to enact reasonable restrictions on the weapons.

"American cities need flexibility to respond to the serious threat of gun violence facing their communities," [they] argue. The 11 cities that signed the brief were: Baltimore; Cleveland; Los Angeles; Milwaukee; New York; Oakland, Calif.; Philadelphia; Sacramento, Calif.; San Francisco; Seattle; and Trenton, N.J.

Your reaction?



These stories always end the same way.

More cities and state enacting laws that criminals won't follow. Duh!!!!!

Stiffer penalities for gun crimes, life sentences for rapists, murderers and child molesters will solve many of these problems.

If you have to release non-violent offenders to make room for the trash, so be it.


Blue Ox

Great. Now we'll have eleven more cities with skyrocketing crime that law-abiding citizens cannot defend themselves against.

Mike Diehl

Rational analysis would demonstrate that it's not "gun violence" but instead (mostly) gang violence. Getting rid of gang vioence is the sort of thing that requires communities to want to be rid of 'em. Firearms regulations won't control that at all.

Tommy S.

2 things here.

One - Only 6 "residents" challenged the DC hangun ban? Wow - we should be encouraged.

Two - I would love to see inside some of the safes of these gun-hating governors in states and cites ravaged by "gun violence".

Those guys need to be thrown from office - literally.

Tommy S.

Wow, Mike.

We were thinking along the same line at the same time. Pretty cool.

Tommy S.

I never saw a gun walking around shooting anyone?

Do they come wth legs now?

Can they fire themselves after they walk to where they want to kill someone?

Tommy S.

If they can...I want 6,000,000,000 of them.


Same old, same old. Banning handguns is a "feelgood bandaid" for a very serious problem. If we need more taxes to be designated to fight crime, I'm all for it. If judges have to be held accountable for light sentences given to violent felons, go for it! If we need higher taxes for more prisons, hey.
Fact is, very few libs will embrace any of those ideas. All they can point to is "gun control".


I live in one of the cities mentioned above and am a gun-owner and lifelong hunter. I also work with kids and families in our city's low-income neighborhoods. With that said, the comments here about how gun control is the "liberal solution to everything" and the answer is building more prisons and lengthening sentances, is just as short sighted as hoping gun-control will solve all crime.
I see fatherless families all the time where the dad has been in prison for years, and the kids are destined to grow up and commit the same crimes thier dad did because of the screwed up environment they grew up in.
Is gun control going to fix inner city crime? Certainly not on its own. Is building more prisons going to fix inner city crime. (For the reason listed above, in the long run, its my opinion it might even cause more.)
These societal problems are way to complex to solve with a single law or approach.


Yooperjack...i respectfully disagree with you here.

Throwing more money at the problem will not fix it...more prisons will not fix it. Let more law abiding citizens carry...and do NOT prosecute them for protecting life, limb and property. The $.09 the citizen spends on that 230 gr. JHP is MUCH better than all the citizens paying 10's of thousands of dollars to house, feed, clothe these slime balls. (i wont go into heating and A/c costs, cable t.v. fitness centers etc. etc.) Things most hard working citizens cannot afford or its becoming DAMN HARD too.

Take one look at your (and mine) Home State (i am assuming your a michigander) The number one industry in that state is PRISONS. Its kinda like trying to tax yourself into prosperity.

Flint, Detroit, Benton Harlem ALL have bans on handguns.....ALL have terrible violent crime rates, gang violence and drug cultures.

Prisons and money (money the state of Michigan does NOT have considering their recent Gubmint shutdown) Quit locking up kids for smoking weed and snorting coke (last i checked (its been a while)1gram of cocaine in your possesion is punishable by LIFE in prison with no possibility of parole) and other drugs and the state will save BILLIONS (on this note i am no big fan of drugs (other than beer)...just pointing out the facts here). Drug addiction is NOT a criminal issue but a mental issue. Save the prison space and rescources for the bottom of the barrel scum i.e. Murderers, and rapists (on this note i truly believe that when it comes to child predators that execution rehabilitates 100% of the time)




Although I vehemently disagree, we're on the same page and in the same state.
You're probably right about the potsmokers and other rec. drug users. I do believe, though, that violent felons have to be locked up. You see time and time again, people who are arrested, have yellow sheets a mile long. Judges feel sorry for them, they're let out and their crimes escalate. They start at shoplifting, get promoted to B&E, and then to armed robbery. Add a lttle child and spouse abuse, then they graduate to murder. Often, the judge reflects on the unhappy childhood that the perp experienced, decides he's not really a bad person, and lets him off. I'd just as soon pay to build another prison.
You are also dead right about the rehab rate for executions, although I think that's something that will be eliminated in my lifetime. And you are also right on the cost-effectiveness of personal protection. I can't think of any homes in my neighborhood that don't have at least one firearm. Our crime rate is very low.

Matt Mallery

A city should not have the right to override the constitution. That is why we are a nation of 50 states and not a land of 50 countries or thousands of city states. Gun control is a feel good solution for politicians. The crime rate is horrible, so instead of deporting illegal aliens or putting killers to death, they ban guns and say "look what I did". when the crime rate continues to climb, they blame the NRA because you can buy guns in surrounding states, or they say we need to throw more money into education. What we need is for every law abiding citizen to be able to carry a gun and the freedom to use it to kill criminals if need be. A dead criminal never escapes from jail or impregnates two or three women with children who grow up without a father and have no moral values.


When the F$%& are these people gonna see that banning guns does absolutely nothing to criminals? And yeah its just that simple!!!


YooperJack, LOL...we ARE on the same page here...Do the crime do the time...problem is this...the laws are set up to punish law abiding citizens and protect them "poor helpless folk from a broken home". What i mean by this is this, Should a scumbag kick in a door in the city of Detroit and a law abiding citizen living there SHOOTS DEAD said offender. Law abiding citizen goes to prison for murder 1. (What a steaming crock of fecal matter) I have no sympathy for those that would kick in a persons door to cause harm and steal, or throw folk from their car at gun point and steal the vehicle. 1st crime = lighter sentence (depending of course on the severity)...2nd crime... YOUR DONE SON!!

As an Aside...My beautiful and beloved U.P. should be a country (at least state) unto herself! If only i could find decent paying work up thata way...I would quit typing and start packing....NOW! Trout season is after all right around the corner.




With all due respect, I think this issue with soft judges is more or less non-existent. I am sure one can find instances of judges being soft on crime; undoubtedly any such occurences will be on O'Reilly's show.

However, in most states judges really do not have the discretion that people assume they do when they hand down sentences. It is the legislatures, who in most instances, establish the sentencing guidelines that the judges follow.

I think the problem with systemic criminality has to do with a lack of opportunities for people before and after prison.

At one time I ran a small business and I hired a couple of individuals who had been paroled or served out their sentences. I witnessed first hand how difficult it is for these individuals to make it after prison. One of the guys had a family and wanted to get a better job, so my business partner and I loaned him the money to go to truck driving school. After he finished the program he still could not find a job. I finally talked one of the large carriers into hiring him.


Stupid liberals have no clue. How does passing anti gun laws stop crime??

Never has, never will!


Hey Mike you hit it right on! Boy, if you don't have a close relative working in one of the trades, you won't find a blue collar job up here. If I didn't have my Forestry Degree and Real Estate License, I'd starve.

I appreciate the problems these people have. There are people who want to change their lives around and I feel for them. I do believe however, that most criminals, upon getting out, plan on not getting caught next time, rather than going straight. I think that the best plan is to get our youth involved in anything that will keep them on the straight and narrow. This would involve sports, scouting, other clubs, hunting fishing, etc., anything to occupy their free time. I really like hunting because kids learn real young that if you have a felony conviction, you can't possess a firearm.


its true.. hunting does keep people out of trouble.. i can't count the numbet of parties i passed on because i had an appointment with deer or turkey early the next morning... just an example.. and the gun laws will help nothing.. prolly make it worse


gun control hinders only the honest, there are too many criminals out there so lets have some hangins


Maybe a few "John Q. Publics" need to eliminate a few more "Joe Gang-members" from the gene pool for infringing on "John's" privacy rights in his home. I'm sure there would be a lot less crime if "Joe Gang-member" realized that "John" was armed... and knew how to use it.


I think we need to take it back to old school cowboy days. Hang 'em for serious crimes. Like everyone else said, taking away guns will not stop the violence. I am from Pittsburgh and get to see the wonderful gang violence daily. So pissed that archery season is over , got to deal with all the shit again till turkey season. Just have to go shed hunting to get back in the woods!

mike oxlong

sounds good more cities should try this

Don Key

My opinion is that gun bans don't help anyone except the people using them illegally. I have been in trouble most of my life. nothing violent or having to do with guns. I had good parents and family. My dad took me hunting when I was young and fishing. What I'm trying to say is that I agree with yooper jack, get you kids involved young and spend time with them. Even though that didn't keep me out of trouble it did give me enough common sense to not get myself thrown in prison for life or executed, which I am all for, the punishment should fit the crime. Even though I didn't keep myself out of trouble when I was ready to change my life hunting, guns, and my family is what I found to be my life saver. If I didn't have those hobbies I don't know what I would do to keep myself sane. And I hope to pass that on to my two children.


mike oxlong make up your mind are you with us or against us? Ya freakin mope! You want to kill people but not animals? Explain your self sir!


I really think mike oxlong is someone we knjow and is just yankin our chain!LOL If not he needs to put on his helmet and bib!LMAO

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