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December 12, 2007

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Discussion Topic: Should In-Lines Be Legal Muzzleloaders?

After requiring that guns have a pivoting hammer for use during the 2007 muzzleloader-only seasons, effectively banning in-line models, Idaho is now revisiting the question and stirring up a old debate. Let’s chime in.

From a state Fish and Game press release:

The Idaho Department of Fish and Game wants to know what muzzleloader hunters think about a proposed change in the rules that would allow the use of in-line weapons during muzzleloader-only seasons.

For most readers, your state has already settled this question. But suppose it were suddenly up in air. What would you advocate, in-lines or no?




If your last words are true - I admire you for sticking out your neck. And I apologize for insinuating you wouldn't care about poaching the wolves. You seem like a rational person.

WA Mtnhunter


You are a rational person until you hit someone's hot button, at which time you become an outlaw, pervert, poacher, moron, ignorant SOB, etc. and the subject of their flaming.

Keep posting.



Dave said your idea of closing zoos was crazy you loon!

"The rest - close the zoos - exotic trade - well that is just crazy."

Posted by: Dave in IDAHO | December 12, 2007 at 03:37 PM

Your reading comprehension really needs work! But by all means, keep encouraging those of us that feel you are "crazy".


"and the subject of their flaming."

Hmmm. Let's have some fun!

"Your panties are beginning to show..."

Posted by: WA Mtnhunter | December 11, 2007 at 01:59 PM

Want to see some panties on a man huh?

"And you, Mr. Tommy, may kiss my grits...."

Posted by: WA Mtnhunter | December 12, 2007 at 12:29 PM

Want a man to kiss your grits huh? And using quotes from a woman on an old sitcom to boot!
Keep it coming Waaahahhhhh!


And Wahhhh!

I called you none of those things except a moron.

That I stand confidently by.


I think the issue with the new in-line rifles is there increased lethality. The new rifles, powders, primers have greatly increased not only the range of the weapons, but also the conditions during which it is possible to hunt.

Most states don't limit the number of hunters who can participate in the muzzleloader seasons, becuase as with bow hunting, the number of successfull hunts is far lower than those undertaken with center fire rifles. Thus, since the primary purpose of hunting seasons is to control populations, the respective game agencies have less control over the harvest numbers.

I think the manufacturers have pushed the technology too far, I have seen add for new rifles that use smokeless powder and have electronic ignition systems.


So are most of you upset with in-lines being so non-traditional or being able to use in-lines in the early hunting season???


I was surprised to find that lethality is actually a word. It sounds like something Bush came up with.


Well, Tommy, apparently you can read. But, where are your comprehension skills!

Posted by Bubba 12/12/07 12:40PM

"It don't make a s--- where the fire comes from, as long as the powder and projectile must be loaded through the "muzzle"!"

I don't care how the powder charge is ignited! I don't care if the powder charge is loose or pellets! I don't care whether you use #209 Win primers, #11 Rem caps, or flint and FFFFg powder! I don't even care if the damn hammer freaking pivots or not!!!

The rest, Tommy, I was being facetious about.
Well, except the exotic pet stores. We don't need no more stinking exotic's in the US of A!!


Matt Mallery


You have this dragging up the past thing down pat. You have quoted almost everyone who visits this forum. Let's leave wolves and exotic pets in their respective threads.

I am not for banning in lines, I just believe the belong in regular rifle season rather than blackpowder, since the people who buy them just want to be able to hunt in blackpowder season and don't care about muzzleloader tradition or the challenge that goes with it.

WA Mtnhunter


Why do you have such a problem when others don't agree with your post? I think you are just an instigator who likes to stir crap up.

Notice Dave in ID said my statement about closing the zoo's was just crazy. Unlike you, he did not start a personal tirade and character assassination. I doubt you care very little about anything except tryig to upset folks. Get a life.


Too bad you just can't purchase a big game license, and harvest the animal you paid the tag for,
Using HI tech or Lo tech for your very own sporting pleasure. Set the deer season (at 20 or 60 days) for everyone. Including bow hunters. I'd like to pick and chose my weekends in the stand like bow hunters do during their 107 day season here in MN.. After all, I only can fill my tag.

Walt Smith

If it does not have a side hammer it is not a primitive weapon PERIOD!!! You can stand up for inlines all you want but they should all be banned from muzzeloading seasons because they truly give a unfair advantage over traditional muzzeloaders.

John R

I would have to judge the use by the language used in the state law establishing the season. If it is called a muzzleloader season, then all rifles (or shotguns) that load from the muzzle and use black powder or a black powder substitute would be allowed. If the state called the season primitive weapon season, then I would interpret the weapons allowed to be more restrictive and thus eliminating inline muzzle loaders. Just my 2 cents FWIW.


I dont give a good god darn about traditional muzzleloading. They only reson I am going to get a muzzle loader is to have an extra season to hunt. I have no desire for to use some crappy flint lock. If i could I would just as soon use a regular rifle or a shot gun, but I can't so in-line it is.


W. Smith et al

There are some "very" primitive arms out there that "did not" have a side hammer! The maker's name escapes me at the moment, but they built an "underhammer" gun! The trigger guard was the hammer spring and the hammer was underneath the gun. There were scopes during the Civil War!
My state's rules and reg's book says "Primitive Arms" season. It does not give a cut off year, that is, "no firearm, nor replica of any firearm manufactured after 1864".
You can't put a law together that somebody, somewhere, can't find a loophole!
Not only that, somebody earlier in this blog said to go to one of those NMLRA sanctioned matches. I'm telling you folks. A front-stuffer in the right hands is an awesome killing machine!



I bought a Lyman Great Plains, 50 cal., cap and ball black powder rifle. I killed a buck with it and lots of other game animals too. It's like anything else, it takes time to master the process. Once mastered, to me it wasn't any different than shooting a large caliber single shot rifle with iron sights, or shotgun with slugs. I gave it up because I couldn't see what the big deal was except for the learning curve of muzzleloading and all the extra gear required. To me, shooting an inline with sabot's and a scope would still be a pain, but it would be anything but primitive. In fact all the deer I've taken in the last 10-12 years could all have been taken with the cap and ball rifle during the regular rifle season. For what it's worth: Lump all bows (recurves, compounds, crossbows) together in one season. Lump all rifles into the other season. Why does everybody think they deserve special treatment? Either you're a hunter or you're not. Get over yourself. To quote Clay Cooper, "It's not the arrow, it's the Indian", it really is.
"Together we stand, divided we fall"? Now before you get all fired up, remember this is only one mans opinion.



Anyone that wants to ban any firearm or weapon because it isn't truly "primitive" better not have a compound bow.

Go make a long bow, yourself; then you are hunting primitive.


I still contend it depends on the season. If it's a "primitive weapons season", no inlines.

If it's a "muzzleloader season" then inlines are muzzleloaders and can be used.

Why the big argument?

And I agree with the above poster. If the season is "bow season" or "archery season" then any type of archery equipment should be able to be used. Period.

Again, why the argument?

Seems like a silly waste of time to me.


Waaaaaaaah......a good description of some of the whining about muzzleloaders.



You dissapoint again with another blanket statement...

"since the people who buy them just want to be able to hunt in blackpowder season and don't care about muzzleloader tradition or the challenge that goes with it."



Not that I don't Matt, but since when did one have to be, "concerned about muzzleloader tradition", to hunt the season?

And as far as keeping things in their respective threads..
I will follow people around when they post absolute BS, like advocating poaching and totally banning forms of other's work, all I want. Get over it.


My state-PA-has both a muzzleloader and a flintlock season, in-lines are allowed during muzzleloader.


Two seasons should be provided. A season just before rifle season and just after bow season for the in line crowd and another for the second rut that occurs after Jan 1st. This could be a 3 week season that is open to both Bow Hunters and non in line muzzleloaders, hopefully we would be able to use something other than flints and just say sidelocks. This would also spur the economy as a bunch of sidelocks would be purchased as well as more hunting clothes etc. The states should charge another license fee for this special season.


Dunno...I have a traditional ML and i have an inline ML...I use either one the entire season, meaning our 2 week "modern" firearm season (Shotgun, pistol) as well as our 2week muzzleloading season.

Let me tell you all right now, i have taken deer with both, both are equally deadly...EVERY shot has hit where i aimed and NO deer went more than 20 yards.

Waste of time and energy debating this...use what you like and what you hit best with.......it is, after all, ALL about the ethical taking of game!!

One shot one kill isnt THAT the spirit of it all!?!?

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