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September 24, 2007

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Discussion Topic: Does Something Stink At Scent-Lok?

From an Associated Press story on MLive.com:

Four Minnesota hunters are suing a Michigan clothing manufacturer and a handful of outdoors retailers, claiming that clothing they bought to mask the human scent doesn't work, and that hunters have been defrauded for years. . . .

Mike Andrews, vice president of marketing for ALS, said the suit is without merit and the company would fight it . . . .

"We've done years of research ... we have hundreds of testimonials from consumers over the years," he said. "We know it works. . . .

Also, from the Minneapolis Start Tribune (registration required):

No one disputes that activated carbon adsorbs odors. But even ALS acknowledges the carbon can become saturated with odors. Andrews says the company's clothing can be "regenerated" or "reactivated" many times by putting it in a regular household dryer for 45 minutes. . . .

The suit says that dryer temperatures never exceed 150 degrees, but temperatures in excess of 800 degrees are needed to reactivate the carbon, and even then it wouldn't be restored to full adsorptive capacity.

What do you think? Does activated charcoal clothing really work as well as Scent-Lok and other companies claim?

Comments

jstreet

Sorry, it should be leeches.

jstreet

Chef wrote:
we drink coffee or hot chocolate, eat sandwiches, and smoke. Yep smoke. Never, have we gone into the woods and not had deer within bow range. In fact, it seems the deer only show as soon as the cigarette is out. We can't figure it out.


Chef,
I used to smoke and I agree 100%. You would put a cigarette out and the damn deer would show up like clockwork.

My buddies and I used to laugh about putting smoke in a aerosol can (like a buck bomb) and marketing it to hunters.

I don't know what it is about it, but the smoke seems to attract deer. It's weird.

Sage Sam

I'm fairly certain that Milo Hanson wasn't wearing Scent-Loc. Nuff' said.

Bubba

I keep seeing AD-sorption (sticks to the outside like a magnet) instead of AB-sorption (soaks up like a sponge). After 15 years in the water industry, thought PAC (powdered activated carbon) AB-sorbed odors.
It's true, PAC can be reactivated. Don't see why a house-hold dryer wouldn't do the job.
As for me!
I would rather spend my money on something besides Scent-Loc. I use an el-cheapo spray from a discount house (guess who!) and it seems to work just fine. Two years ago, rode my scooter to the blind, unloaded it. Moved scooter about 100 yards away, sprayed down with "no-stink-em" and walked sand road back to blind. Forty-five minutes later, a small, one antlered buck stepped out in the road, turned and walked down the road in my tracks and never batted an eye.
If whomever feels that Scent-Loc helps them, sobeit! It's their money!
What really ticks me off is the frivilous law suits! NOTHING is 100% fool proof! Somebody needs to ask these guys if they polled the deer that spooked and got a positive response as to the cause of the "spook"! Was it from their "scent" or other prevailing factors? What could any of the "other" factors have been?

Like John Stossle (sp) says, "Gimme a break!!!"

Bubba

Ronald

Like many other products, this should probably be a matter of "buyer beware."
But what really does bother me is the TV pitch men for this and similar product shouting nonsense like: "Forget the wind, just hunt." No deer hunter worth his salt would even consider doing that. Clearly, these guys are blowing smoke up our a$$es--and as someone else pointed out, insulting our intelligence. It may not be illegal, but it sure is annoying.

tnhunter

How many pope and youngs have you killed. seems the people who spout off about smoking and not watching scent lack the ability to consistenly kill large deer. Been using scent lok as well as sprays on equipment methodically and have the kill record to go with it. i have seen and had more luck since i began using it than ever before. live in denial if you want to but it is a tool and still doesn't correct all lazy behavior. still have to descent and dress in the woods. and by the way the head cover goes over mouth and nose and you breath through it rocket scientists!!!

tnhunter

How many pope and youngs have you killed. seems the people who spout off about smoking and not watching scent lack the ability to consistenly kill large deer. Been using scent lok as well as sprays on equipment methodically and have the kill record to go with it. i have seen and had more luck since i began using it than ever before. live in denial if you want to but it is a tool and still doesn't correct all lazy behavior. still have to descent and dress in the woods. and by the way the head cover goes over mouth and nose and you breath through it rocket scientists!!!

tnhunter

How many pope and youngs have you killed. seems the people who spout off about smoking and not watching scent lack the ability to consistenly kill large deer. Been using scent lok as well as sprays on equipment methodically and have the kill record to go with it. i have seen and had more luck since i began using it than ever before. live in denial if you want to but it is a tool and still doesn't correct all lazy behavior. still have to descent and dress in the woods. and by the way the head cover goes over mouth and nose and you breath through it rocket scientists!!!

Tommy

It may sound stupid, but anytime deer are around me in the woods, I breathe through my nose.

TNHUNTER - I agree somewhat, I too have had undoubtedly more success since using all the scent control stuff, but the scent lok clothes I would never pay that much for. I use the deodorant, soap, sprays and detergent - thats it.

Be getting off work soon and I'll be in that corner field across the road. And I will have been sprayed down. And my clothes have been hanging out back in the screened in porch all week!

Ronald

tnhunter,
I don't think you question was directed at me, but I'll say this nonetheless:
I arrowed one buck a little shy of 125 and another a little over 140 last year. I wasn't wearing charcoal clothes and I didn't shower in no-scent nonsense, or spray down with goofy kid's stuff. I left my clothes outside before the hunt and I don't sit a given stand when the wind was wrong.
By the way, I have used borrowed charcoal clothing numerous times and never noticed any difference at all in my success. I was convinced not to spend the extra money.

Joel

I've done everything--showered, sprayed, and put on Scent-Lok from head to toe, including gloves and hood--and still had downwind deer bust me. From my experience, if a deer, especially an older doe or mature buck--gets directly downwind of you, you're done, no matter what.

Bubba

TN Hunter

I don't go to the woods specifically to kill P&Y or B&C bucks. If one should wander by, sobeit! If not, the local doe population really needs to be thinned out. I like venison!
I've watched some of the more popular DVD's of big bucks where they allowed a buck to walk that really needed to be removed from the gene pool. I like big ol' hairy bucks too!
I use a scent killer spray, nothing else. I pay very little, if any, attention to the wind unless it's over 10-15 mph. Deer in this area are much spookier in high winds, just like everywhere else!
I can't (don't) climb anymore, bad hip, I dig a small hole inside my pop-up. I urinate there and cover with a layer of dirt. I've had deer within 10 feet of my blind! Heck, I've even had them sniff my blind!
I suppose I'm doing it all wrong!
Of a 7 deer limit, I only killed 6 last year!
I just hunt!

Bubba

Bubba

P.S.
I don't spend my money on hi-dollar hunting clothes. I prefer to spend it elsewhere. I wash my clothing without detergent and dry outside.
The most important thing I pay attention to is interior blind color, if it ain't black, you're gonna get busted! Been there, done that!!

Bubba

kudu56

"A month before the gun season opener my buddies and I collect as many deer pellets as we can find and try to eat at least a cup and a half a day (they taste just like Milk Duds). Then, before we go out at dawn on opening day, we each chug 3 one ounce bottles of Tink's #69. Works like a charm and we have yet to see a lawyer."

I laughed so goddamned hard at this I fell off my chair! Thanks for the laugh! :-)

Think about a $5 wind checker vs. a $250 secnet lok suit!

T. R. Michels

1/04/08 I have it on good authority that Scent Lok has asked for an extension of the planned deposition of a former Scent Lok employee by the Plaintiff's Attorneys. I also have it on good authority that Scent Lok wants information from this former employee concerning any and all correspondence (face to face conversations, phone conversations, FAX's, e-mails, letters) that he has had with: 1. The lawyer(s) involved with the either the Patent re-examination and subsequent denial of the patent, or the lawyer(s) involved in the current lawsuit. 2. The Plaintiffs in the current lawsuit. 3. One of the manufacturers of activated carbon suits, that is not named in the lawsuit.

As far as I know this former Scent Lok employee has never had any contact with any of the lawyers, he does not know and has never talked to any of the plaintiffs, and he has never spoken to the other manufacturer. How do I know this?. Because this former Scent Lok employee had to sign a non-disclosure and non-compete document when he left Scent Lok. He is forbidden, under penalty of law, to disclose anything he knows about Scent Lok and it's products - and he knows a lot. What Scent Lok is doing is trying to stall the law suit and they are "fishing for evidence" so that they dont' loose the lawsuit.

Here is a bit of speculation on my part. Because it is safe to assume that if Scent Lok believes it could win this case, so that the negative publicity about their products would go away, because the negative publicity is probably resulting in lost sales, then Scent Lok would want to go to court as quickly as possible, so their sales would increase. But, Scent Lok is Staling the lawsuit, just as they have stalled the Patent Reexamination up until now.

The only conclusion I can come to is that Scent Lok wants to drag this out as long as possible, so that the truth does not come out.

T. R. Michels

Scent Lok did not have a booth at the Archery Show, one of the largest wholesale buying shows of the year!

Although I did not attend this show I have it on good authority that speculations arose that Scent Lok (which traditionally has a huge booth at this show) did not attend this very important buying show, because they did not want to answer questions about their "rejected patent application", the on-going lawsuit, the efficacy of their product to eliminate human odors, or its ability to be regenerated.

There are also rumors that, in the near future, Scent Lok may not be the huge industry player that they have been in the past.

T.R. Michels

T.R. Michels

2/10/2008 The Scent Lok lawsuit was dropped – because – after Scent Lok raised some objections - the judge felt that the complaint was not specific enough about what each of the companies did (as in manufacture, sell, was licensed to sell etc.)

The petition to drop the suit occurred within minutes of when the deposition of a former Scent Lok employee (who knows a lot) was supposed to occur. Mere conicidence? Probably not. I suspect Scent Lok does not want this person to testify.

However, the lawsuit has been filed again, and it will continue.

Scent Lok also filed for a last minute petition to the Patent Office, to try to save its currently rejected patent, which - if the patent rejection is upheld - means other scent control clohting manufacturers will NOT have to pay royalties to Scent Lok - which could mean newer and better scent control products on the market for us hunters - at lower prices.


2/29/2008 My source, who is in contact with the former Scent Lok employee, told me that the depostion took place, and after it the lawyers told the former employee to "keep his mouth shut" about what was disclosed during the deposition. Sounds to me like some stuff came out that may not be good for Scent Lok.

All of Scent Lok's maneuvering seems to be to stretch-out the final decisions (of both cases) as long as possible - so they can continue to make money.

T.R. Michels

Illinois Hunters are suing Scent Lok. You can read the entire complaint here:
http://www.trmichels.com/ScentLokIllinoisSuite.htm.

What is particularly interesting is Section G & Section H, which specify why and how ALS/Scent Lok defrauded its customers.

I'm just trying to save you guys some hard earned cash.

God bless and good hunting,

T.R.

T.R.Michels

10/22/ 2008 Scent Lok claimed (in their former advertising) that their product had "anitmicrobial agents" in it.

Here is an excerpt from the current lawsuit.

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

DISTRICT OF MINNESOTA

Civ. No. 07-3970 (RHK/JJK)

ORDER REGARDING ANTHONY NEWMAN’S MOTION TO QUASH SUBPOENA

Mike Buetow, individually on behalf of himself and all other Minnesota residents and entities similarly situated;

Gary Steven Richardson, Jr., individually on behalf of himself and all other Minnesota residents and entities similarly situated;

Joe Rohrbach, individually on behalf of himself and all other Minnesota residents and entities similarly situated;

Jeff Brosi, and

Dennis Deeb,

Plaintiffs,

v.

ALS Enterprises, Inc.,

Cabela’s, Inc.,

Gander Mountain Company,

Bass Pro Shops, Inc., and

Browning,

Defendants.

… This motion did reveal some information known to Newman, which appears to support Plaintiffs claims, and which would be a proper focus of discovery. The Declaration of Anthony Newman in Support of Motion to Quash Subpoena sets forth Newman’s allegation that Defendant ALS Enterprises, Inc. ("ALS"), admitted to Newman that its clothing did not have antimicrobial, or odor-eliminating properties. (See Newman Decl. ¶ 4.) …

I have it on good authority, that Scent Lok's lawyers admitted - that their product DID NOT CONTAIN ANITMICROBIAL AGENTS IN THEIR PRODUCT.

And they admitted that their fabric/clothing DID NOT CONTAIN - odor-eliminating properties.....

We have been deceived by Scent Lok again.

T.R. Michels

Watch this dog FIND - a hunter in Scent Lok

It takes this dog about 5 minutes to cover what appears to be at least al hundred yards - but it finds this guy in a tree stand...

If the dog can smell him in Scent Lok, a deer can too ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXp3kv8fs_0




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