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April 19, 2007

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Discussion Topic: Do Landowners Need More Liability Protection?

This issue could prove hugely important to the continued cooperation between hunters and landowners. Take a minute to read this Associated Press article and give us your reaction below:

The Pennsylvania Farm Bureau today is saying the Legislature should amend state law to give property owners more protection against being sued for hunting accidents that occur on their land.

Farmers say they're worried about the implications of a successful lawsuit against a Lehigh County orchardist for the November 2004 shooting of a pregnant woman by a man who was hunting on the farmland.

Because the victim wasn't on the farm property, a four-decade-old state law that provides legal protection for recreational use of land and waterways didn't apply.

The woman won a verdict against the farmer and hunter, and obtained a confidential financial settlement earlier this year.

Comments

AJG

Clearly the hunter did not follow the safety precautions we live by: particular know your target and what's behind it.

The landowner should not be liable for the actions of the hunter. The hunter should be...

kim

Everybody is sue happy these days. While I sympathasize with the pregnant woman and her family,The responsible person is the shooter not the land owner or the government or anyone else. I agree with AJG, one of the first rules of hunting or even just shooting is gun safety which is taught to be sure of your target and the surrounding area and possible carry of your round. In short, "if you are not sure or positive that it is safe, DON'T SHOOT". Guns don't kill people, people kill people. And cars don't kill people the operator of the vehicle is the sole responsible person. It's always sue the one with the largest pockets which happens to be the land owner in this case. Just like Cheney, he should have made sure of his shot before pulling the trigger or "DON'T SHOOT".

Matt Mallery

I was talking to a German immigrant to our country who said part of the reason he moved here is because of our freedom to hunt. Over in Germany, you have to pay a ridiculous amount of money for hunter insurance in case you accidentally shoot someone. Everyone here wants money for anything bad that happens. Sueing is ruining this country.

Gable Sadovsky

Landowners have the option of purchasing liability insurence for recreational activities being done on their land, and those that recieve lease fees from hunters should probably look into that. The true problem here is that we dont have enough facts from this article--i.e. did the farmer know this hunter be reckless when it came to shooting, or did he drink to excess etc... I agree that landowners who derive no pecuiniary gain from allowing others to hunt on their land deserve some sort of immunity from suit due to the negligent acts of those engaging in such activities---but this is a slipery slope. You cant allow some landowner to walk away scot-free from liability if that landowner knew of that hunters propensities of either being reckless when it came to firearms. THe moral to the story is that if your a landowner have the hunter sign a waiver of liability, because a waiver is a absolute bar (absent willful conduct) to recreational activities engaged in on your land. This is why when you go skiing on the slopes and all those people break their legs, they cant sue because to get the lift tickets you sign that waiver!

John

Yes. If this landowner was held liable--absent any negligence on his part--than they do indeed need more protection from the law. Otherwise, why would anyone take the chance of letting hunters on.
No matter what the laws, no matter what waivers are signed, if this lawsuit gives the perception among landowners that letting hunters on might come back to bite you in the @$$, then it will definitely have an impact on our sport.

tom

do we need a law for every stupid action that man can create??
the insurance companies already make a fortune off our fears and crazy behaviors.
how about eliminating ALL issues of liability. no fault, no blame living. just think how many lawyers would be out of work? the clutter in the courts could be reduced.

Mike Diehl

This is stupid. The responsible party is the shooter and only the shooter. Jurors can be real dumb*sses I guess. If this becomes common, laws to protect property owners from frivilous lawsuits should be enacted.

kim

This country is insurance poor already. You can't own anything in this country unless you have substantial amounts of insurance. And half the time, the policy you get and pay your hard earned money for has some sort of exclusionary statement in small print that leaves you hanging out in mid air anyways. Just ask the policy holders of major catastrophes. As soon as the insurance companies find out they have to pay out big money, like they have collected for years, they are all of a sudden broke but never go out of business. Wonder why? Could it be that they have their money tied up in real estate instead of paying the victims? Look into it and check it out.

Matt Mallery

This reminds me of a case I read about where a mountain lion killed a child in a state park in California and the parents sued the park agency. Why? This is North America. Anyone stepping foot outdoors should know this continent is inhabited by dangerous animals. You are on your own. It is not the job of a land manangement agency to protect you. We are becoming a handheld, sanitized nation thanks to ambulance chasing/slip and fall lawyers and people that can't accept the world as a dangerous place and want to feel nice and safe no matter were they go.

Brian

You may hunt my land, in limited numbers, but you better know before you start that, as Matt Mallery said above: "You are on your own." I cannot and will not try to protect you from your own, God-given stupidity. Where I live, you can and will go from the top of the food web to the bottom in a blink of an eye (owned by grizz or back bears, lynx, bobcat or cougar,) unless you're keen to get stomped on by bison, moose or elk. Show a little sense of self preservation.

kim

The theory behind mandantory insurance is a good THEORY but that's all it is. As soon as they made insurance mandantory it gave the insurance companies the right to steal from the general population. People vote on legalizing gambling in their state but do nothing about insurance. The politicians are tied into insurance by accepting their money for election funds which makes them susceptible to favoring their votes. Insurance is just legalized gambling. They bet you won't have any problems and you bet you will. Usually they win and take your money but when they lose they want to cancel you. All I can say is,"Jesse James used a gun the last time he robbed somebody"!

jmh

An atrosity, there is no logical basis for the landowner being responsible for the actions of another person - an independent individual while on their property. It's a classic example of greed run amuck, money grubbing people (their loss is a tragedy but I don't believe the monetary gain offsets/fixes replaces that in any way - the basis of the suit is strictly for money) hiring an attorney out for a fee. The states may well have to act to prevent such greedy lawsuits, otherwise people having access to private land will become a thing of the past. The people that filed the suits basically used the courts to steal from the landowner.

jmh

An atrosity, there is no logical basis for the landowner being responsible for the actions of another person - an independent individual while on their property. It's a classic example of greed run amuck, money grubbing people (their loss is a tragedy but I don't believe the monetary gain offsets/fixes replaces that in any way - the basis of the suit is strictly for money) hiring an attorney out for a fee. The states may well have to act to prevent such greedy lawsuits, otherwise people having access to private land will become a thing of the past. The people that filed the suits basically used the courts to steal from the landowner.

Neil Smith

Lawyers are ruining this country.

Joel

Neil,
It's not the lawyers. They play a part, but the real problem is the people who hire the lawyers.

kim

This discussion is like the story about the thief who breaks your window to come in and rob you. The glass comes down and cuts his arm severely and he sues the homeowner even though he was committing a felonious act on you and your property. Should you as the property owner be responsible for someone who was reckless on your property? Or should he pay the price for being reckless?

tom

Kim: Best thing to do is just shoot the sob! Then he would have TRULY paid the price for recklessnes!

Ralph the Rifleman

I think liability should fall on the hunter-if the facts seem to support they/that person was solely responsible-for the shooting. Althought they are called "accidental" if it was just that-an accident.
The Feds give flood insurance to people building on known flood areas-Why don't they give some affordable liability insur to farmers?

MArk W.

The one with the deepest pckets is the one who gets sued along with all parties involved. The landowner obviously had some money if he owned the land...or could be forced to sell the land in order to satisfy the judgement. The shooter is the one who should be responsible. Actions like this will only close more private hunting land across the country and drive up the cost of hunting.




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