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February 14, 2007

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Discussion Topic: Is It Time To Accept Man-Made Global Warming?

From a Boston Globe Op-Ed piece entitled The Turning Point on Global Warming, by John McCain and Joe Lieberman:

THERE IS NOW a broad consensus in this country, and indeed in the world, that global warming is happening, that it is a serious problem, and that humans are causing it. The recent report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change concluded there is a greater than 90 percent chance that greenhouse gases released by human activities like burning oil in cars and coal in power plants are causing most of the observed global warming. This report puts the final nail in denial's coffin about the problem of global warming . . . .

The debate has ended over whether global warming is a problem caused by human activity. Consequently, we can and must act now to solve the problem, or else we will bequeath a dangerous and diminished world to our children and grandchildren.

Something tells me the debate hasn’t ended among F&S readers. So have at it below. Are McCain and Lieberman right? Is it time to accept that global warming is real and caused by us?

Comments

Trent M.

This is absolute garbage. Global climate change occurred long before, and will occur long after man has come or gone. The element most responsible for global warming? WATER VAPOR!!!!

People, please take the time to research this yourself. Look at the studies, see who is bankrolling them. Scientists are bought and paid for everyday to find what people WANT them to find.

Global avg temps went down from 1940 to 1970. Well into and after the start of the "industrial revolution" that is supposed to have triggered the wicked warming cycle. THIS IS GARBAGE!!!!

Tina

According to this article in the UK, it's 'not our fault'. ;)

Well, not exactly.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/11/warm11.xml

Derek K

The peak of the solar cycle has just ended and the climate may cool over the next few years as a result. I am actually more worried about global cooling because more fossil fuel will be needed it that occurs. The percentage of Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere is 0.035%. I do not believe that it has a significant effect on climate compared to other factors - most notably solar radiation variation.

Charles Burklund

The concept of man induced global warming is the message of the same people who told us in the 1970's that the world in 2000 would be destroyed because of rampant overpopulation. According to them we are living in a primitive, starving world because of no food to feed the billions of people now on the world, oh also because we we inducing a coming ice age that would wipe out most of the northern hemisphere. There was to be no fish and other sea living animals, because we polluted it so bad. BTW, these are the same people who denigrate people who drive SUV's but fly all around the world in private jets that use mor fuel and create more "greenhouse gases" in one hour than my SUV will in the next year. If they were really intellectually honest, they & Al Gore would not get on another plane. They would call for cessation of all aircraft. And we are supposed to fork over our tax dollars, change the way we live and they do not. No thanks CHicken little.

These are the same people who believe guns and hunting are EVIL.
And America

KingTiger

Is that why they canceled the global warming conference in DC tohttp://www.drudgereport.com/flash8.htmday because of winter conditions?

KingTiger

Is that why they canceled the global warming conference in DC today?
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash8.htm

Don Dolph

THERE IS NOW a broad consensus !

Keyword consensus not scientific facts.

There once was a consensus that the world was flat!

How did that work out?

Mike Diehl

Ironically, the flat earthers running the consensus were the ones calling scientists heretics for claiming that the Earth was round. Food for thought anyhow.

Mike M

Science is not about "consnsus", it is about facts. The global warming propaganda machine is in high gear and it is difficult to hear any other point of view, especially when differing points of view are demonized with labels like "global-warming denier", putting them in the same moral class as holocaust denier. Differing from the politically correct line is also bad for your career (the top meteorologist of the Weather Channel calling for the firing of any meterologist anywhere who disagrees with the global warming party line), and very few people are brave or rich enough to stand up against the Marxist tide.

Mike M

As far as the people leading the global warming bandwagon, Al Gore denounced the US as a pariah for not conforming to the Kyoto Treaty while he sat next to the former PM of Iran at the Davos conference recently. What he did not mention was that Bill Clinton did not dare to bring the Kyoto treaty before the US Senate for a vote, and the Senate was so upset about it anyway (as it would ruin the US economy while asking nothing of China and many other major polluters) that they voted 95-0 against even considering it. This was way before George Bush was president. Al Gore is a liar and a fraud, and propagates lies about his own country while standing on foreign soil for his own benefit. And those that are driving the Global Warming myth do not have the best interests of this country in mind. Quite the opposite. When was the last time you heard anything good about the environment? Believe me, there are are a lot of success stories out there after almost 50 years of strict, expensive environmental laws being implemented. But you really have to dig to find out about them. Ever wonder why?

Ed Cuneo

Thanks for all of those who took the time today for your comments. As I have stated in the past at this website on this issue, the Earth is dynamic, not static. If the Earth tilts just a precious inch or two towards the Sun, then it will be hot. And vice-versa. I loved the comment about the Weather Channel. I saw Dr. Cullen one day almost have an epileptic fit on the air because she was being bombarded with e-mail like the ones above. Sportsmen understand about nature as they live in it and care about it. Politicians use emotional hot button issues to push an agenda. Not all of pols but most of them.

Galen Burgett

With all due respect, what in the heck to McCain and Lieberman know about climate change of any kind? The global warming hysteria is one of the biggest non-scientifically based political scams ever. On the one hand, it is good that Field & Stream makes these issues known to hunters, anglers, and other outdoors people, but, on the other hand, presenting the question as "Is it time....etc, etc." is just goofy. McCain and Lieberman and hundreds/thousands of other gullible people seemed to have been sucked in by this enviro-socialist non-sense. We the American outdoors people don't have to be.

Mike Diehl

Just out of curiousity, if the majority of climate scientists think GW is real and has a strong human induced component in the current GW trend, how does it become a "nonscience" "scam?"

How many of you all advancing the "global warming is a scientific hoax leftwing plot &c" conspiracy theory actually analyze climate data or actually know (face to face) a climate scientist?

Nate

In the words of my mother when something idiotic was said in our house, "that's bull corn." I will not dispute the fact that emissions and all that other stuff adversely effect the environment, or that we are experiencing out of the normal climate changes, but think about this: scientists have dated the earth to be billions of years old and in the time countless amounts of volcanic eruptions have occured. I mention this because one volcanic eruption does more damage than a million years of humans driving cars and having factories. My contrary belief is that the earth is actually heating from the inside out, and there is credible scientific information to support this notion too.

Troy S.

GW is a T-H-E-O-R-Y, not scientific fact. One only needs to listen to the talking heads on the news and you will hear that the differences in the 'end results' keep changing. First, sea levels would rise by feet, last week at the press conference they said 7"-20". Last night, I heard Brian Williams say (or allude to) 'sea levels rising up to 20' near coastal cities putting NY, Tokyo and London under water.'

These so-called experts can't even reach a consensus! Anyone remember what NASA told us in the 70's? We were headed for another Ice Age. If NASA couldn't predict it, should we now expect Mssrs. Gore, Franken and Michael Moore to know better?

Finally, we have only had temperature data (upon which most of this 'science' is based) for the last 125 years. How is it possible for any PhD to stand in front of a microphone and declare that based on 125 years of Earth's history, that they can predict the Earth's entire future- a future that comes after nearly 4 Billion years of change since inception?

Please, this is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to pointing out that this emporer has no clothes...there is so much more to say and so little space in which to write.

-Troy S.

Scott K

I wanted to check to see if F&S was screening emails from folks that think Global Warming may have some validity.

Let me start off by posting that I don't see how it is unpatriotic to think that we might actually be responsible for some portion of what is happening to the planet?

The reality here is that no-one really, 100%, knows why what is happening is happening. The systems that make the planet dynamic are way too complex for us to understand fully. I happen to believe, based on the facts that I have read (both pro and con, mind you) that we, through our daily activity of living, are capable of having an impact on the climate which we will experience over our lifetimes. I also believe that there are simply too many of us wanting too much from the planet (me included) for things to change.

There is no denying that we (humans) are doing more harm to the planet than good. Pollution, war, famine are all directly attributable to our (humans) taking more than our fair share.

I think the fact that the mere possibility that we are having an impact requires action. (And that even the most jaded anti-climate change adherent, deep inside, has to acknowledge that it might be possible.)

The good thing is that most of the solutions to our theoretical problem, including greater efficiency and alternative sources of energy, all make for cleaner air and water for all of us. (That makes a fisherman like me happy) They will also create more jobs for people close to home and take our $$$ out of the hands of people that really want to hurt us badly. What's wrong about that?

We have an oppoortunity here to start to make a real difference in our role as stewards of the planet, why waste it?

bill birch

Who to hell knows, but if the government gets involved hold onto your wallets and get ready for more laws. I'll bet all these folks crying about Global warming will be crying the most when the government mandates the amount of miles they can drive per week or how much electricity their allowed to burn.

Roscoe

There was a huge debate on Bob Marshall's Green Sportsman blog recently on this same topic. http://fieldandstream.blogs.com/conservation/2007/02/ignore_our_pres.html#comments

I don't think we'll ever be able to prove with absolute certainty whether or not global warming is occurring or increasing in rate because of human activities. Instead, I think we should be discussing ways that we can reduce our potential impact on global warming without completely destroying the robust economy we currently have in the US.

Personally, I'm a big fan of doing more research into bio-fuels like ethanol and biodiesel. Not only would this reduce our dependency on foreign oil suppliers, using bio-fuels would significantly reduce the net amount of carbon dumped into the atmosphere. This is a result of CO2 being removed from the atmosphere by the crops that are grown to produce the fuel.

Lets talk about the small steps we can take to improve the situation, and stop arguing about whether or not the situation exists.

Mike Diehl

Someone said that one volcano puts out more than a million years of autos. That is an interesting claim. It also seems to invite a lesson, since many seem to think that nature's effects on climate substantially dwarf anything that humans can do.

Great. Lets take a look at the facts.

As far as I know all of the volcanoes on Earth, each year, emit about 140 megatons of CO2.
http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html

In contrast, according to the EPA, in 2004, US internal combustion engines produced about 5900 million (5.9 billion) metric tons (1 metric ton is 1000 Kg) of CO2. Source:

http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/UniqueKeyLookup/RAMR6P5M5M/$File/06FastFacts.pdf

One Kilogram is about 2.2 US pounds. Let's call it 2.0 pounds to keep the math easy. This allows us to pretend that one metric tonne (1000 Kg) is about the same as one US ton (2000 pounds). That means that US cars and trucks put out about 42 times as much CO2 as all of the volcanoes on earth each year.

Why is it so hard for people to grasp that at these scales of emissions, human activity can and does affect climate?

Jim

No one has proven to me that
1)there is Global warming
2)that it is caused by man and is not natural
3)that if there is we can do anything about it
4)that it will be harmful if we don't do something about
5)that are attempts to "correct" it will not be worse that the proposed problem

Pat

There are still plenty of unknown answers, but what we do know and can all agree on is that there are still plenty of other reasons to reduce CO2 emmissions, conserving a limited supply of fossil fuels, or increasing air quality,- less respritory health problems ect..
Elimitaing CO2 emissions are not gonig to stop globel warming if in fact it is occuring. There are hundreds of reasons for conserving energy. And I hope that, we as outdoors men know this and repect the control that we have on the environment.

Jim Kiser

It is kind of interesting it always said there is broad consenus. Well not from where I sit. Nigel Weiss Prof. Emeritus at the Univ. of Cambridge says it is all due to sunspots. He predicts a global cooling period starting around 2012 due to the sun going quiet. I have seen other scientists say the same thing. One in Oregon is being threatened with losing his job if he doesn't change his tune to suit the Gov. of Ore.It should be noted that temps on Mars have increased also I guess someone should send old Al to Mars to straighten them Martians out.

CB

Many scientists have proved global warming is not caused by humans. The earth naturally heats up after an ice age and the last ice age wasnt long ago. The scientists who say humans caused global warming need to go back to science class and study more about the earth.

Harry Hohenstein

Remember when people were sane?

Ed Madigan

Reference your first paragraph about a "broad consensus". Science is not a "broad consensus", it either is or is not. I agree with the second to last statement, more humans need to go back to science class.




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