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June 06, 2008

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Some Political Notes

Does anyone remember Martha Mitchell? She was the wife of John Mitchell, who was Attorney General under Richard Nixon and went to prison for his involvement in Watergate. As the coverup started to unravel, Martha would get a few drinks in her and start calling newspapers with all sorts of interesting stuff about who was lying about what, and it got so bad that her husband allegedly had her sedated and kept prisoner in a motel room.
Bill Clinton seems to be rapidly going out of control, and if Hillary becomes the nominee for Vice President,  we may see Secret Service agents tailing him with a hypodermic needle. What worked on Martha Mitchell may also quiet down Bubba. It's worth a try; nothing else has succeeded so far.

In 1992, Clinton's opponent for president was George H.W. Bush, who was viewed by a considerable number of gun supporters as too moderate, and they withheld their votes. This contributed to eight years of Clintons in the White House. John McCain has his weak spots as far as the Second Amendment is concerned, but he is infinitely better than Obama.

Now that Hillary has morphed into Annie Oakley it might be helpful to see what she thought before she became the Shooter's Best Pal:

"I will work to reinstate the assault weapons ban….I will also work to make sure that police departments get access to federal information that will enable them to track illegal guns…." 4/16/08

"I believe that every new handgun sale or transfer should be registered in a national registry…." 6/2/00

"[after Columbine] Bill and I announced a proposal to raise the legal age of handgun ownership to 21, and limit purchases of handguns to one a month."  11/1/03

And from Barack Obama:

"…I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right…" 4/16/08

"I think it is a scandal that this president [Bush] did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons bill." 10/21/04


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WA Mtnhunter

Jim in MO

I also have the Fjestad Blue Book of Gun Values. It is a fine reference, but not infallible. While most of the information is accurate, it is not complete. For example, it does not show a Savage 110 ever being chambered in .257 Roberts in the synthetic stock and I personally owned one NIB.

So RMH's old shotgun could be most anything, particularly if made in small numbers overseas. I have a .410 side by side made in Brazil that is not listed either. It was my late father-in-law's so I have no idea where it came from. It's not too old, but with no serial number, it must be pre-68?


Ahhh ... Where's Pat Paulson when we need him? Pat Paulson and Professor Irwin Corey ... there's ticket . Washington is so screwed we may as well laugh ourselves into a coma.

Rocky Mtn Hunter

Jim in M0: I just rechecked the name stampd on top of the bbl. It says: The Imperial. No other names anywhere. Yes It was my gransfathers, whom my Mother now(92) acquired when they devided his estate about 20 ys ago. She is very sick now and is giving away some of her stuff, and she gave me her Dad's shotgun. I would like to restore if possible. It has a bolt thru the action with a thumb lever that you tighten up as far as will go, the in the action is a grove for that lever to lay in????? quite Odd , never saw one like it before.I plan to take to my Gunsmith for a look see and get his opinion if I should keep as is or restore. Stock has a chip broken off at the forend and a little crack in the forarm. It really needs a good sanding, buffing and reblueing after the wood work is worked on. It is kinda unusual, as had many SS shotguns, but never one like this one. I love odd ball stuff to begin with, kinda goes with my attitude at times.

Rocky Mtn Hunter

WA Hunter: Thanks for the Info, will call DOW in C0 in the Am get some information. If bychance you pass thru Craig, C0 be sure and take a little time and look at the Western Museum they got. It realy is interesting. A little of everthing WESTERN and many firearms. I have been to see it 3 times and if go back will see it again. THere is a old fashion resturn near it that serves great food at reasonable prices. After a few days of beans and franks, its a treat to eat there. Wish was goign with you as love teh NW sections of C0 al the way to the Utah border. We hunter north of Craig on Black Mtn and Maybell in western Co.We also hunted below Steamboat springs and Hayden and Rifle.About 65 miles South of Steamboat is where I killed my first Elk. Good luck, don;t kill all the game, as I will apply again next year if living. Those maybe next year are coming to fast, at 73 not many left. About l0 yrs ago,C0 set aside X# of disable permits, but now they stopped I'm told.I never dreamed i would not draw Colorado or MT. Had been bugging the maps to see what routes I would take from Co to MT. MT's season last for 5 weeks, where in Co about 5-7 days now. The found a way to make lots of$$ by dividing up the season into 4 shorter seasons.. In MT you can hunt for the full 5 weeks every day or till kill your animal, plus fish, bird hunt, etc.Cost of Elk and Deer tags are $643.00 this year. A tad cheapr than C0. O well, if you have a good time and enjoy the hunt that's all that matters, killing a animal is a bonus. Too bad I'm to old( and very poor health) to move, or I would be living out West some place, as always wanted to be a Cowboy, ride horses, round up cattle and hunt all I had time to hunt. Life is un-predectable, just play the cards dealt and hope for the best.So, this year will hunt w-tails( did get 2 nice Bucks last yr.) here for our 5 week season and maybe a few days in SE VA. Shoot-um-straight and often.


DP will probably have a comment about this tomorrow morning, but to those of you who think it's a good idea to elect a liberal Democrat, I would direct you to today's SCOTUS decision re the prisoners at Gitmo. NOW do you understand why one of, if not THE, most important decisions the POTUS makes are the judges he nominates for the SC? I don't know whether to laugh or cry. The absurdity of it boggles my mind.

Gary in MN

Some people have indicated that they are voting for Obama so their kids wont have to go to Iraq. True if you vote for Obama don't worry about the kids going to Iraq. The war will come to the U.S. Our young men and women are doing a great job over there. No one wants to go to war but freedom isn;t free.


The R. party "was" our last hope of saving this great nation. Now there is nothing left but a bunch of socialist sympathizers on their side! Time to join the Constitution party! All of you out there who are going to vote for JM had better think again.............. All you're going to do is continue to justify the move of the R. party to the left even farther! Bush himself has done more damage to the R. party's principles in the last seven years than anyone else and the left still hates him!!!!!!!!! Think about it!!! It will never be enough for the left until this country is totally socialist! And because of spineless leaders like Bush, we are already well over half way there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks. Get on the CO website or call DOW for info. There are over the counter elk tags in the Craig area and even several hundred deer tags available when the leftovers go on sale.

Yeah, at a shade over $800, deer and elk tags are steep in CO. $643 in MT ain't cheap either! To budget, I buy the deer in the April draw purchase and elk in August leftover sale. Since we have to make motel deposits and ranch fees early, I buy the cheaper tag early and the other one later. From my experience, I am more likely to tag deer and elk the same week in NW Co than in MT. I can usually only stretch a week and a half to travel/hunt, so the 5 week MT season doesn't help me in that regard. Since I'm not retired yet, I don't have unlimited time off. I usually don't hunt my home state of WA if I go to CO. Seasons too close together.

What was the name of the cafe you talked about? The TIn Cup and Bad To The Bone have the best grub in Craig that I have found. The Backwoods Cafe on W. Victory Way has a good breakfast, but their dinners weren't all that great as I recall. I have never had less than an excellent meal at Bad to the Bone (on Breeze Street just a couple of blocks north of Victory Way / U.S. 40). I want to go back to the Old West Steakhouse in Steamboat this year. Mighty fine!

Shoot straight!

Rocky Mtn Hunter

WA Hunter. Canot recall the resturant, but is one block of main street near the Museum. Not fancy, but good food. Called DOW and may have something I can live with, all depends if my Son or a friend can go also. Thanks for the information. I;m going to write a note I received from my Dealer today in the next box, read if you will.

Rocky Mtn Hunter

A note from my Dealer; listed below.
I've been in business for 40 years, and 40 years ago gun retailers would cry,"Why cain't I get products at the same price as Sears?" Forty years later it's,"Why cain't I get products at the same price as Wal-mart? The unwanted truth is that Wal-Mart has their firearms manager at the plant in CHINA. The product goes from China to the USA Wal-mart warehouse. The warehouse is totally computerized and connected to evry cash register in evry Wal-Mart store in the USA,and the world. Wal-Mart has 24/7 real time iventory control. The computer calculates how fast the product is selling, when and how much it needs to re-order,and sends the order directly to the factory in China with a time frame. A Wal-mart product makes two stops, the last stop beig the counter in a retail store. That's a significant advantage when diesel fuel is $5.00 a gallon, and on it's way to $10.00 a gallon.
Some of you guys may recall my stating some time back, that I did not think Wal-mart sold the quality firearms as your local dealer does. I had planned on a new Remington Model 770 , looked at one at Wal-mart and was a piece of junk. Then I went to my Dealer and saw the same gun. No comparison in quality,fitting of metal and wood or Syn, plus the metal at Wal-marts was a thin as Paper. Needless to say I forgot the 770 and had heard of the MArlin XL7. So after reading on the testing of the XL7 by Wayne Van Zool and a couple other writers and testers, I ask my dealer to order one for me, with the understanding if not the quality advertised I would not take, he agreed as he wanted one also. So the XL7 arrived, and I was thrilled. It is a quality built firearm as all MArlin guns have been. It is a combination of a Wincheser 70 and a Rem 700 and the Savage Accu-trigger. Stock , SYN, fits like a glove and love the trigger and how easy to adjust. Plus it's several dollars cheapr than the Rem 770. So guys, I just wanted to let you all know that my thinking that many Wal-mart guns wore a USA name, but Mfgerd in China. Better still, if we don't trade,. buy from our local dealers, Wal-mart will soon run them out of business as it has to the Mom and Pop small stors. I;m willing to allow my dealer to make a few dollars over the Wal-mart price, as if got a problem, he will handle, try that with Wal-mart. Also, this Dealer thinks handguns and home defence shotguns l8"bbls will increase in sales thru 2008 and 2009, as the younger generation feels the 2nd Amd. is going to drown prior to 3-4 Members of the Supreme court retires in next 2-3 yrs. My dealers also stats, those of us who do not reload, better buy up a supply of ammo fast, as the cost is going out of site, as China and JApan buying all the lead they can get. I noticed my Brand and caliber of Ammo has gone up over 30% since last year. Even Wal-mart's ammo is up, if you trust it to be USA made. We as sportsmen, better for our on benefit, buy from our local dealers all we can. I'm, guilty of buying junk I think will help, but in fact, a waste of $$. I will begin shopping at my local dealers and be happy. Shoot-um-straight and often. The old Gunslinger.PS: The above Info came from the American Firearms Industry,that usually is correct 99% of the time.And I trust my 70+ dealer.

Rocky Mtn Hunter

Silver Arrow:
Yes, we all did make more $$$ from 92-2000 and more jobs available then also. When CD rates were at 8% or more depending on the Amount you invested and what term. Now, CD's on any term are less than 4%, to my figures that 50% less income from your investment. As for Jobs, non left here where I live, all the mfgering plants closed and moved to Mexico or some of-shore island. People I know are now driving from 25 to 200 miles to find work and at less salary than back in the 90's. I care less who is in the WH,as long as he don't get in my bilfold , then it hurts. My life style has changed to the income available to me, and if you really check the numbers on lost jobs and incomes from the working class you will see what I;m saying is true.The well-off have gotten even more well off and us peons have gotten worse off. Bring back the 90's for me and I will hunt more out West and buy more firearms. O, forgot, what was the price of gas in the 90's and today its over 4 bucks and continues to climb. With 2 oil well junkies in the WH, they making the well off happy. Doubt you recall the late 30's and early 40's, when times were realy tough, more people lost their property than those today. I recall my family waspaying for our farm and the yearly payment was 450.00. Several years, we only could pay the interest.Not until the early 50's did things improve and we paid the farm off, by my Dad and Mom working 2nd shift jobs at a sock mill and farming as well. I was a little shaver, but recall the sleepless nights my parents never slept, worring about loosing our home and farm. At l0 yrs old I began working after school and Sat. and Sundays to help out. That was the best education ever offered, as you learned how to make a living.And, I was born in the USA, not some other planet as our population now shows the many transplants we support. Wait till the Ilegal;s begin to draw SS that you paid in, your retirement is going to them, not being invested for your retirement. years.Sadly, no improvements in sight. Get real and check history of the 90's as compared to todays.


I saw a news story last night on T.V. about a group of sportsmen in Wyoming who have paired up with the environmentalist movement to stop the drilling for natural gas south of Grand Teton. While the thought of a bunch of drilling at the base of the pristine mountain ranges does bother me, I am even more disturbed that these sportsmen don't seem to understand just who these environmentalists are and what the ultimate result of their goals would be!
In their heart of hearts, these wine and cheese socialists see these sportsmen as a bunch of hay seed hicks with "guns" in their pickups! Deep down they cannot bear the thought of these "blood thirsty moronic cowboys" defiling the mountains with their Wal-mart hunting boots. They see us as a bunch of traditional "unwashed" American idiots going about raping and destroying the land and "consuming" it's resources! The way they see it, the land is only fit for "good stewards of the environment" like themselves! If they had their way, only they would be permitted to set foot on many of these public lands armed only with a cork-screw and a cutting board in one hand and a copy of Mine Kampf in the other!
My point is, while it may seem in the best interest of both these groups to stand against this drilling right now, it is only a matter of time before the environmentalists turn on the sportsmen and start to insist that, they too, should worship at the shine of big government! They may demand that the sportsmen stop hunting and fishing and may even start to demand that in certain areas, there be restrictions on the number of people allowed in those areas each day! You see, the environmentalists, the anti-hunters, and the anti- gunners are pretty much all the same bunch of Marxists!!!

O Garcia

For all his virtues as a man, I don't know if McCain would win. Having read David Halberstam's "The Powers That Be" (and other literature on Nixon-Kennedy before that), I'm also aware that TV holds the key to getting elected.

McCain looks like an older, kinder version of Billy Bob Thornton. Especially when he smiles. Which is not particularly appealing. Obama will smoke him in a TV debate.


Though I do not like Obama's stance on gun control, it is relatively low on my priority list of what I care about this election.

I care much more about Iraq, the economy, and trying to un-copulate what the "honorable" Mr. Bush has done.

I believe that Obama is the one that can fix these things, not McCain. Our country cannot (reasonably) get much worse off right now, and McCain wants more of the same. I do not, and I most certainly will not be voting for him.

Jim in Mo.

Well then go sit with BO and think of some more things to nitpik about. What you people think this guy can do with promises of 'change' I don't know. He hasn't shown anything but a penchant for spouting big things and worshipping with a hate monger.


Things to nitpick about? You are right, our huge national debt, our repeated violations of our own constitution, our disgusting environmental policies and our flourishing economy are things that are really unimportant in the big scheme of things. Yes, lets "nitpik" about those.

He may not be our answer, but he is something different, and we surely do not need more of the same crap that we have been enduring.

I will be sitting with Obama, not another image of Bush. Don't worry about it. If you want more of the same, by all means, go get more of the same.

Jim in Mo.

You had another post on a different blog that I combined into one.
The matter of awarding or earning a medal was hashed over some time ago. Especially by veterans, read back.
Give the man a break, I'm sure dave entertains us with these blogs on his coffee break.


I didn't read anything you wrote except in this post. I do know that you are grossly mistaken with your idea tha things can't be much worse. BHO is soft on Islamic terrorism. If he's elected, Americans will die! Also, you're probably too young to remember Carter. We had unemployment around 14 per cent. Viet Nam Vets had to appologize when they applied for jobs. This is what "Osama" Obama is promising us for our future. The man is a borderline moron. He will gladly raise unemployment to implement a "fair tax" code. If that means raising the deficit, so be it. Also, apparently, he has no energy policy short of you not driving, eating, or heating your home.


An interesting, if self contradicting, ramble at me. In the late '30s and early '40s that patron saint of the Democratic party -- FDR (and Queen Eleanor) was residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, Washington DC; FDR did more to socialize the US than any President before or since. Sure LBJ tried! Klintonista I also tried! But FDR and Eleanor forced their socialist 'reforms' into the landscape.

I can not agree that as a country we would have been better with either Gore or Kerry. No GWB is not wonderful but he did LEAD us through several unprecedented disasters including 9/11 and Katrina. I know that not everyone is better off now than when Klintonista's reigned but in large part the movement of manufacturing jobs to Mexico, China and India was well underway by 2000. Klinton pushed for and celebrated NAFTA and other pacts which have encouraged further weakening of US Manufacturing. Hopefully the lower U$D will make it more feasable to manufacture here!


I am with you! B Hussein Obama poses terrible risks to our national security! Eloquent speeches aren't going to keep emboldened Islamic terrorists from further attacks on our own soil!

McCain is a nitty gritty guy with a lot of experience, the ability to build coalitions and he'll get things done.

Funny thing; the Dems have been less inclined to take pot shots at our 'failing' health care system since Teddy K had his life saved by that same system! Coincidence? I don't think so!


I doubt these things will get better by doing the same thing, do you?
Do you think that by staying in Iraq, or possibly invading Iran, that we will have less Americans get killed than if we left Iraq? Hell, there were more Saudis involved in 911 than any other nationality, and we continue to be in bed with them. Seems to me that maybe we should continue our war with Afghanistan, and go to war with Saudi. They attacked us, not Iraq. I have spent more than 2 years of my life in Iraq, in two different units, and believe me, most of the time, we are fighting to maintain security there, not making any types of dents in any terrorist organization (which didn't exist before we invaded and spent too much time there.) If we left Iraq, less citizens would be killed. Not more. Maybe then we could send more troops to Afghanistan to fight Al-Qaeda. You know, the guys that attacked us? Obama has said this about Afghanistan "The first step must be getting off the wrong battlefield in Iraq, and taking the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan" http://www.barackobama.com/2007/08/01/the_war_we_need_to_win.php
Yeah, he sounds pretty weak on terrorism when he says "As President, I would deploy at least two additional brigades to Afghanistan to re-enforce our counter-terrorism operations and support NATO's efforts against the Taliban. As we step up our commitment, our European friends must do the same, and without the burdensome restrictions that have hampered NATO's efforts." Sounds weak huh? Because he wants to send more troops there, and encourage Europeans to do the same? Ummmmmmmmm.... Yeah, hes weak on terrorism huh?

Since you implied that veterans would have to apologize to get jobs (you did say "Viet Nam Vets had to appologize when they applied for jobs. This is what "Osama" Obama is promising us for our future.") maybe we can talk for a second about who would do most for veterans. Obama supports the new GI Bill, McCain does not. Obama supports it as the right thing to do by veterans, McCain does not support it because he thinks it will hurt retention. He cites a study done by the Army that says it will lead to a 16% drop in retention. Sadly, the study also says that it will raise recruitment by 16%. The Army's goals of initial enlistment are normally about 80,000, and the reenlistment goal is normally about 60,000. That means, if the study is accurate, that we will have a larger Army WITH the new GI Bill, vs before it.

Also, while I am no fan of Carter (yes, I'm too young to remember anything but very vague things about him, but I can, and do, read books, and talk to my family about their opinions of things past) you said that unemployment was "around 14 per cent". The Bureau of Labor disagrees with you. According to them, for 1977 we had 7.1%, 78 we had 6.1, 79 we had 5.8, 80 we had 7.1, 81 we had 7.6.http://www.bls.gov/cps/prev_yrs.htm In the years following, it continued to raise, and that of course is mainly due to him, but Reagan also played a role in those years as well.

Anyways, I guess we will see what was the right thing to do in 15 or 20 years. Hindsight is always 20-20, but I think that going after the guys that attacked us, instead of some moron tired of us being in his country will be the right thing to do.


I can't believe those stats! I remember MUCH HIGHER figures on television!


As a veteran, you know that the price of freedom is never free! I believe that our troops have killed somewhere around 50,000 al Qaeda since we invaded Iraq. That's 50,000 who would've come here, but chose to go to Iraq, because Americans could be killed there. They would have come here!

I know that John McCain voted against the new GI Bill. I'm sorry he did. However, what good is a college education if there are no jobs when you graduate? Obama is just plain arrogant when it comes to the economy. Also, if he's not scripted, he can't think and talk at the sdame time. He can only read well. I honestly believe, if not for Affirmative Action, he'd be the happy man at Walmart!


How do you figure that we have killed 50,000 AQ there? Do you have a source? I looked at some estimates ranging from 84k to 92k, but that was for "civilian" and I don't know if they are including insurgents, or true civilians (if there is such a thing there, it would only be the young children). Anyways, but I don't think that there is any way we have killed 50k men that were in any way affiliated with AQ.

I am sure that we have killed way more than 50,000 people there, but that doesn't mean they were AQ. Very few of the guys that my units killed had any type of training; most were just everyday morons out doing bad stuff, either for revenge, because they were threatened, or they just wanted us to leave, but that doesn't make them AQ. It makes them guys that were trying to kill us for a variety of reasons. We did kill a lot of foreigners in Fallujah, but that was the exception rather than the rule. I personally think its a stretch to say that any of them would have come here if they didn't go to Iraq, but thats just me. Wouldn't it make so much more sense for them to come here? Why go there and really have little impact on us in the long term, when they could come here and have a huge impact with one rifle in a shopping mall or day care? They were there, and didn't have the means to come here and do things like that. The only explanation for that is that they didn't have anything to do with AQ.

Regarding your comment about no jobs when you graduate, if I have to have a bad job (which would surely be worse than if I had no college or other training) I would at least like to be educated and poor, vs uneducated and poor.

I am not a huge fan of Obama, but I do believe that he is by far the lesser of two evils. I do not belive he has the answer for everything, but as I stated earlier, Iraq is my biggest issue for the upcoming election, and he plans to do what I consider the right thing, when Senator McCain (whom I respect quite a bit, but mainly for his past service) will do what I consider the wrong thing. I'd like to see a much more right leaning Dem that would like to get out of Iraq, or a more left leaning Republican that would do the same, but neither of those will happen. Not in this election at least.

Oh, those stats are from the Dept of Labor. I might be misinterpreting them, but I don't think so. Maybe the rate was that high in your local area, and not nationally.

BTW, you're welcome for my service lol.


I saw it on TV a few months ago. Could've been Fox, maybe NBC. Also, the unemployment rate thing was somewhere around the last two or three quarters of the Carter Term.
Anyway, this is why we fought! So you and I would have the freedom to do this! We probably wouldn't be doing this in some parts of the world.


Well I'm sure they have a website you can search. I tried, but I didn't get any figure near what you supplied. Not to insult you at all, but "I saw it somewhere" doesn't mean much. I would appreciate it if you could get a source.

I would also appreciate it if you could explain to me what those 50,000 "AQ" had to gain by fighting there, instead of coming here and fighting. Or fighting military families in Germany. Or bombing the embassy in Canada. Or shooting up a hotel filled with tourists in Mexico. Doesn't it seem like 1, out of 50,000 could get into Mexico legally, and then buy a gun there? They fought in Iraq because they were there, not because that was the "terrorist" battle of their choosing. Or, you could convince me otherwise.

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