Mr. Petzal,
I find myself forced to disagree with you. While my own situation may be the unique result of excellent teachers, I feel that I had as much exposure to great literature in high school (and to a lesser extent college, where I am a sophomore) than many adults today have experienced in their lifetime. In High School alone I was exposed not only to Shakespeare and Chaucer and the celebrated poets such as Tennyson (sp?, Shelley and Keats, but also to Chekov, Conrad and Hardy. I still get frustrated thinking about staying up late revising papers that the professor rejected on the basis of single sentences. Among my friends and classmates, there is a definite line in the sand when it comes to writing skills. The line separates those who read heavily, and those who don't.

Mr. Novak count yourself fortunate. I too was fortunate to have literature/english (now refered to as language arts)teachers who cared and exposed me to not only classical literature but also to Faulkner, O'Connor (Flannery not Cactus Jack) et al. Dave, as for your comment on text messaging being the end of structured written communication, I would say you are correct. As a part of my job I work with young people in grade levels from elementary through highschool. One of the chief complaints I hear from teachers is that students submit written reports and essays as if they were text messages! It seems no amount of correction seems to stick with the kids. I also see a lot of jaded, burned out teachers. In my state they become that way because they have to teach to the tests our state government requires. If our kids test low in a certain area this is all they see until the next "state test". Maybe I'm and old dinosaur but I see no regimented educational system. The kids are not exposed to each class each week much less each day as I was in my schooling. They may have math one month then not see it again for 2-3 months. Try to train a bird dog that way!

Yooper and Dave,
I quite concur with your observation that our American literary system is in the toilet. While I may not have went to college (served in the military instead) I do rather enjoy reading. Unfortunitly when I was exposed to the literary classics in High School they were few and far between. Sure I read "To Kill a Mockingbird" and "Catcher in the rye." But there was so much more out there and not enough time to read all of them. To tell you the truth I feel my education was a farce and my diploma is not worth the paper it is printed on. But what they did do was teach me how to read and thirst for more them what is on the best seller list this week.

Thomas

Dave - I sadly remember when my alma mater offered the incoming freshmen jocks an "introductory" English course...which quickly became known as "13th grade English". Luckily, it was discontinued after that year...probably because the lunkheads couldn't read the campus maps!

I didn't mean for my comment to deflect attention from Grits Gresham. It was something of an outburst and I should have held my keyboard.
I was trying, in my overwrought and long-winded way, to explain why guys like him should still matter, but somehow don't.

My wife, interestingly enough, is a high school English and humanities teacher and an old-school hard-ass grammar queen.
Her kids adore her without exception, and she in turn loves them but she is tough and she is demanding.
She is not there to make them feel good about themselves, she is not there to help them achieve self-actualization and she is not there to be a vessel of empathy.
She is there to teach them, and if she does that correctly then all that other stuff will happen on its own.
I'm extremely proud of her and if we had a few more teachers like her our kids would be in good hands.
But you know what? Teachers aren't miracle workers. They can only work with what's been given to them.
And if parents don't give a damn that their kids can't write a complete sentence, then the teacher's mission is doomed to fail before it ever begins.
Just go ask any public school teacher about their students' parents. The response may shock you.

I believe two issues are being confused: skill in writing and pride in writing (or pride in any other work for that matter). I agree that the quality of writing has declined, and causes are to blame. However the underlying causes are not the same.

I propose that the bulk of the decline in written school work, from grade-school to university is attributable to the lack of pride. I do not doubt that students also generally lack writing skill; rather I feel that is not the cause of the drastic decline. Among professional writers, I doubt that lack of pride in writing could be the problem: would any editor not demand the best from writers?

Michael

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WAM:
You don't know how much you said there! I generally hire by "word of mouth". i.e. I hire by getting referrals from foresters who used to work for me. If I had to advertise, I would get out of business. You wouldn't believe the mistakes I find on resumes. Yeah, I know that we get a bit careless on these blogs, but boy! To send something in first class mail, that you didn't bother to check, that you used words incorrectly, and your career will depend on that correspondence. Its scary because someone will hire that person.
YooperJack

After being retired a couple of years, I decided to go into teaching at the high school level. I left after a bit less than 2 years. I found it embarrassing to be associated with the profession. Teaching is not rocket science. Administrators effectively blocked teaching in an effective manner, and unfortunately, many of those entering the profession, are not our best and brightest. It was a shocking, and disappointing, experience.

If you look @ school rankings on a state level the bitter truth will bear out what sounds racist and bigoted.

In Indiana, the schools with the best standardized test scores are from predominately white areas with higher than average incomes. It's that way year in and year out.

Are the facts bigoted and racist? Are we as a society failing the children? Has the middle class collapsed and our teachers are social workers more than teachers anymore. Are we too consumed with our own lives to parent our kids anymore?

Any answers, suggestions?

Jim

Jim:
While never having experienced inner city schools at any level, it seems that the school systems in those areas are bureaucratic systems that have run amok. I became aware of the problem when Ronald Reagan was president. He was a strong proponent of school vouchers. Anyone who was associated with a school system was vehemently opposed to this idea. Now more than twenty years have passed and the situation has gotten much worse. It seems like the only kids that those schools are interested in graduating are the ones with a football or basketball scholarship in their future. They don't teach them any more, they just lower the standards to ensure graduation.
YooperJack

all: pardon the missing word in my above post. The second sentence should read "..., and both causes are...".

Jim: What real correlation do you think that there might be between scores on a standardized test and, say, skill in writing (craft rather than mechanics), or of true interest or wonder at how neatly the laws of math and physics work?

We need the basics: if one cannot do well on a standardized test he is unlikely to ever contribute much to by way if intellectual skills (I suppose it might be ironic that I can't think of a better term). However, I don't think that we can assume that those who do well are much better equipped.

Michael

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PbHead,

We posted at about the same time. It seems we're thinking alike too. Mechanics are just too easy to evaluate.

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I’m tossing rocks around now when I live in that proverbial glass house.

Writing is a skill as any skill, must be practiced to master. I noticed with too many moderns are not willing to make the personal commitment to any skill. That being said,
I get lazy often lousing up a chance on this blog to have a literary exercise. The written word is a wonderful abstract in showing how a person thinks and can organize thinking. I should take a more serious attitude.

Reading is just as important. Good authors capture Thought and the State of Mind of Humanity and of the Times in their writings.

What I find just as disturbing as the lack of reading and writing skills, is the lack of knowledge nowadays on Occidental Myth. I don’t see this exposure to students in any learning institution unless you take a special college class. I have to agree with the late Prof Joseph Campbell myth and mythology takes a person deep down into the fiber of being a member of Western Culture and Thought. For 30,000 years Myth taught a person how to cope within themselves and with their position in the community at different stages of their life. The rub is the knowledge is there through Reading, but few are picking up the tools.

I hold most the turmoil with American society is because people don’t know how to cope with the quantum leaps and thresholds of Life’s portals.