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January 04, 2008

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Remington Buys Marlin

Last week I heard that Remington is scheduled to buy Marlin Firearms effective by the end of January. I have no idea what this means. AR-15s with wood stocks and exposed hammers? Your guess is as good as mine. No, I am not jerking your chain. This is for real.

Let the speculation begin.

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Comments

YooperJack

Dave:
Probably doesn't count for much. I'm unwashed and kinda like Dick Cheney. All in all, wasn't this a pretty good merger? Seems to me, Remington guns and Marlin guns were altogether different. One company made mostly levers, larger calibers, brush guns. Other company made bolt action rifles, all calibers. It seemed to me that the only place where they really went head to head was on the 22 calibers. I see quite a few Marlins up here but Remingtons aren't all that common. I might be biased though. Generally when I meet someone and their carrying a lever action, we compare his to my 94 Winchester. If I meet someone carrying a bolt action, the topic doesn't come up.
YooperJack

craig curtis

i for one am very pleased that rem. is going to be the proud new owner of the next best thing to winchester !i bought my son a lever gun (366) and his 22 is also a marlin . their great guns. and i didn't want to see another American gun manufacturer get lost in la la land or worse bought up by some god forsaken foreigner . regardless if you use or have any interest in marlin we must be concerned about all these company's going under , or needing help.i still mourn for my beloved dan wesson. but i can still get my parts and such from the new owners just cant remember who bought em !!!!!

Clay Cooper

Perhaps they may bring back the old Marlin Model 120. The model 870 mag I have, I wish I never bought it. Upon firing it ejects the case like an auto. This normal according to Remington

jstreet

I thought CZ owned Dan Wesson now.

As far as Marlin goes, I hope they continue to make nice walnut stocked guns with good bluing.

Jim

Gary

Um, I don't think you can consider Remington an American company as it is owned by Cerberus Capital--an international holding company.

I think they may be based in New York, but much of their portfolio is international.

ishawooa

So which firearms companies are truly American? I believe Ruger, Henry, maybe what's left of Colt, S&W?, Kimber, Springfield Armory (at least in part), Savage, Cricket?, Weatherby, Marlin, Remington?, Mossberg, T/C?, DPMS Panther, Bushmaster, and of course some of the smaller but high quality makers such as Les Baer, Ed Brown, etc. Anyone know for sure if the above list is even correct and can anyone think of others? I guess I am to tired tonight to check on my own (and have to take a bath since its Saturday night in cowboy country, somehow I suddenly feel unwashed but very privledged). I do know the total is decreasing as the years rip on by.

SilverArrow

Dave
This has been hashed over on the Field Notes blog.
I consider it generally a good thing. Marlin might not have been able to sustain itself and either gone under or fallen to a foreign firm (Yes, I know Cerberus is a Multinational conglomerate but they are headquartered here.) such as Hyundai, Mizuono etc.
Remington's marketing muscle and purchasing power could boost those Marlin brands a lot.
Consolidations and aquisitions are an everyday part of life in business; Smith & Wesson recently bought Thompson Center Arms and so far things are looking good there, I have heard that S&W has its eyes out for other aquisitions as well and, as I said on the other blog, I think Savage is a possible target there.
Cheer up, we still have hare and some other late season hunting, spring turkey will be here before you know it and that is a good thing.
SA

Cutter

Off subject, but more worrisome, check out this link to the D.C. brief on the 2nd amendment case before the US Supreme court:

http://www.nbc4.com/download/2008/0104/14980193.pdf

As expected, the argument completely overlooks the total ineffectiveness of the handgun ban
on the ability of criminals to obtain and use guns.

YooperJack

Cutter:
How in the heck did you find anything in there? If you were to print that out, you would have a world book encyclopedia.
YooperJack

Peter

I hope Remington gets their act together and does not sink two ships in one. After a factory tour visit to Iion I became troubled by obvious "issues". Their own employees will openly vent about the lack of quality controls in the main production lines. Too many come-backs and poor follow up where the source of the problem lies. Much like others who have replied here, I try very hard to buy products truly made in the US. Competition is stiff and to survive the management of any firearm manufacturing company must do their job so that the workers can do theirs. I have 4 Remington bolt rifles and they are some of my most favorite rifles, especially my 722's. My old 336SC is another favorite. I think most sportsmen, like myself, want a rifle that is of good quality that shoots accurately. You can't have this when the bean counters want the line workers to use a rifling button until it won't make any lands and grooves just so that they can get the last $1.50 out of it! Pennywise and pound foolish. I think this may be a source of why we all see such a variety of accuracy reports out of the same model rifle. It depends on how many hundreds or thousands of times the tooling was used. If the tooling was new you get a good one, if it was old and warn you get a bummer. When you have some good parts and some loose parts, you have a mess. Frustrated employees and potentially unsatisfied consumers are a bad combination for any corporation. Lets hope things improve. Peter.

Tom Fowler

Thanks, Peter...I feel the same overuse of the tooling factor was true in the case of the Taurus recreation of the Winchester .22 pump...new, it wouldn't hit into more than a pie plate, rested, at fifty yards.

Quality should be a first concern, not marketing.

Tom Fowler

mr.b

Seems like the buy-out will create another market. Just like Winchesters' pre/post '64 model 70. In the last year I have purchased a few older Marlins with the "ballard" rifling. I won't trade them for anything. It also won't be the first time Marlin changed hands. I hope this means the continuation of a fine firearms brand.

Pappa Bear

"The only constant is change." - Heraclitus.

I doubt that it will be good for Marlin, although almost certainly not immediately fatal.

Just sitting here in the cold January gloaming contemplating the parallels between the fortunes of American firearms makers and American wars and expansion.

We all pretty much know that the War of the Rebellion made the gun business boom from Fred-and-Ed forge shops to massive factories, an expansion that contracted only slightly during the subsequent western pacification and domestication. Then came in fairly quick order the Spanish-American Invention, the First World Unpleasantry, various colonial disturbances and The Real War, followed by the Frigidaire War, the Korean Police Action and the Southeast Asian War Games, by which time the manufactory of firearms had changed significantly in materials, functions and organization.

Which all is to say that, when American arms companies competed for government contracts for rifles, shotguns and handguns, and Americans armed themselves with weapons similar enough to those contract guns so that production lines were little altered, AND when craftsmen were paid a pittance to work 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, the biggies (Winchester, Remington, Colt) fared exceeding well.

Then, boys quit carrying their guns to school to pot-shoot rabbits and squirrels on the way home; hunting in general fell from grace while the remaining market was largely satisfied with good used shotguns and rifles, the military changed its design types and contracting methods, and workers had the temerity to demand their worth. The result? Winchester died of obesity while some good little guys starved to death.

Marlin's been a good guy. It now most likely becomes the Lever Division of Remington, a wholly owned subsidiary of Leviathan.

There's probably more to it than that, but my coffee's cold.

Cutter

Yooper Jack:

Scroll past all the references and history of D.C. gun laws. The real arguments are near the end. Let's pray the appeals court ruling is upheld. Remington-Marlin mergers won't be enough if it's not....

Mark-1

That D.C. Brief to the SC is poorly written IMHO, and all it's doing is reaffirming the same argument that got their position handed to them in their hands prior.

I get the feeling whomever in the the D.C. AG Office that presents this position is a politico not a litigator and will be going down in flames. I smell burning flesh already.

YooperJack

Cutter:
I read it. If that's not a good enough reason to vote GOP in November, nothing is.
YooperJack

Scott

The larger picture can be seen, (oh my gosh, I can not believe I'm actually referencing Wikipedia) here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus_Capital_Management
They are also about to acquire DPMS per their announcement in December 07. Leviathan seems an appropriate moniker. My grandmother used to make a supper for us when we were small that used all the spare ingredients she could find in the refrigerator. She called it pot-full-of-good. Somehow distilling the aforementioned companies into something "good" will be difficult at best.

Scott

Addendum: They seem to be very eager to spend money right now. This needs to be watched very closely. Their management philosophy should be scrutinized as well as their overall agenda.

SilverArrow

Scott
Difficult yes, but possible. This task is one of the great challenges to American managers today; successfully blending two or more formerly competing companies into one whole which is better than the sum of the parts. It has been done, albeit rarely; Novartis in the pharmaceutical industry, Kraft in foods, Chrysler in automotive (some would say debatable here) to name a few. It isn't an easy row to hoe. Hopefully Remington improves their own quality and takes the necessary steps to up the quality of the newly aquired brands as well.
SA

Larry Chesney

I hope the merger doesn't eleminate the H&R 1871 line, of break open single shots. They are the best thing going for us purests that like to take game with one shot.And they are inexpensive to boot.

Scott

I would love to place a positive spin on these mergers. But, as you say, it is not an easy row to hoe. I own some of each of the firms firearms. When you get down to it, and this will light some fires, an AR is an AR. Unless you tweak it with aftermarket parts, they are at their base level equal (although I favor the Bushmaster). To combine Bushmaster and DPMS seems an effort to get more DOD business as they are deeply rooted there. Remington and Marlin are huge names with great historical significance. Who knows... we might have the best of all worlds after the dust settles. But private equity investment can turn as fickle as that date we all had in high school...

Bubba

Remlin?
Marlington?
I thought we had already hashed this over elsewhere!?
How about H Mar & Rem R?

Bubba

Rocky Mtn Hunter

I'm not sure this merger is a good deal for Marlin. The investment Co. who bought Remington bought a power instalation Co here in N.C. a few years back,All this groupe of investors want is to make money. I also understand that Remington did 500 Million in business in 2007 and this new groupe wants that doubled to l billion within 2 years.They also looking to get into the handgun market with Taurus as their # l choice to date. Big is not always better. Remington is my gun of choice to hunt with, but that can change at a moments notice if I buy a lousy firearm. Big is not allways better. A old Southern saying is, you can get to big for your britches. Time will tell. So far the mergers Remington has taken, not doing all that well, look at EAA. I always buy USA when I can and products equal or better, but I just bought a handgun mfgered in Italy and it's a jewel, it's a copy (A.Uberti) of the Colt Peacemaker and it looks to be and shoots as accurate so far.Hang on to your present Marlin's as those guys who owned the pre 64 model 70's did. Got a feeing the pre 2008's of Marlin will be worth a lot, and we all know the quality will be there in those.The come-laters will be for the $$ I;m afraid.With the cost of a quality bolt gun these days, a great Lever is looking much improved, they only need a few more calibers, such as a 270 and 30-06. I do beleve I can work my 336 faster than I can my 700 CDL.Plus the 336 and Winc lever the best woods guns ever built, plus less to replace/repair and also work well in poor weather conditions. A 336 with a 24' bbl in 06, I;m in the market, if the quality comes with it. Hey, I wanted a new gun for the Rockies this fall, the lever 06 would be that excuse to buy a new gun,.I understand it's a done deal already and the Taurus is close on it's heels.

Blue Ox

I believe Peter's got it right. As long as the corporate bean counters are in control, they will be pushing quantity, not quality. Being a machinist myself, (for a global company, no less) all too often I find that I'm forced to use worn-out or broken tooling to create what's on the blueprint. Then there's management, bitching about quotas. And at the same time, I've got quality control breathing down my neck to make sure every piece is up to spec. It's a sad reality to have to deal with, and I'm sure it happens almost everywhere.

Dr. Ralph

As a leading propagandist for the vast right wing conspiracy I just want everyone to realize that this is a plan for complete and total world domination... after buying up every gun company in the world they will shut them all down and the money AND guns will just plain disappear. Don't even bother looking... either that or Cerberus has taken lessons from Sam Walton on how to make money.

On the brighter side the guy who runs this company claims to hunt and ride a Harley Davidson. He can't be all bad, he gave Dan Quayle a job.




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