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September 17, 2007

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On Microstamping and Ted Nugent

Whether I ask for them or not, I am sent e-mails from the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, and sometimes they contain interesting stuff. The latest one informed me that California's legislature has passed a law requiring that all automatic pistols sold in that state after 2010 have their breech faces and firing pins microengraved. This process would stamp the serial number of a gun on the case of any round it fired, enabling the police to trace the firearm from brass left at the scene of a shooting.

According to CTSGV, California is solving only 45 percent of its homicides right now, so they could use some help, and the bill lacks only Arnold's signature to become law. I don't know whether it will solve any crimes, but I do see two likely results: First, neater murderers. The more meticulous among California's killers may actually police their brass after they kill someone, resulting in less litter at a crime scene. The other is a return to revolvers. Is this progress? Who knows?

Also on the Coalition's site was a news item claiming that Ted Nugent, who is a member of the NRA's Board of Directors, threatened Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama with violence while waving a pair of assault rifles. This allegedly happened onstage at a concert in Anaheim, California on August 21. There is even a tape of the event (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ac6_1188154223) you can watch.

I did, and the Nuge does appear to be waving a pair of black rifles, and you hear the occasional bad word, but threats? My understanding is that if you threaten a presidential candidate, the Secret Service comes to have a talk and no one ever sees you again. But as far as I know, the Nuge is still at large.

What is wrong with this picture? Go to www.csgv.org and take a look. Maybe you can tell me.


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Trae B.

I like the idea of stamping the guns where the shells leave a number on them and it would work really good but when they told every one their plans over the internet that messed the whole thing up.if people dont know that their gun shells will tell on them if they shoot somebody.then they wont know to pick up their shells.now if somebody shoots someone they will clean up after them selves.

Blue Ox

Sure, the Nuge spouted off with some good suggestions, but threats? Please. It's a little somethin' called freedom of speech. Don't like it? Tuff cookies!


"It would work really good" End quote.

Actually not, how much work do you think it would take to polish off micro engravings on a firing pin or to polish them out of a chamber. Far less time than filing the serial numbers off a stolen handgun which criminals do all the time.

Another feel good measure that will increase the cost of a new gun by $200 and solve zero crimes.


If it would in fact increase gun prices by $200, then you can chalk up another win for the anti-gun crowd. How many people on the edge of buying a gun would look at that extra $200 and say, "the hell with it", and just not buy. Guns don't need to be banned, you just have to make them impossible to own through restrictions and outrageous prices. Or at least that's the way I see it.

Mike Diehl

Nugent: so what?

Microstamping: it's not the nutty idea that some seem to think. If it worked, it would seem to help gun owners, because those of us who use our firearms legally aren't the sorts of people who are going to get into trouble. And while there are some people of the criminal mind that might know enough to polish the microstamps off of their handguns, the plain fact is that most criminals are dumber than a bag of rocks.

"Police their brass?" I doubt it! Much time spent doing that sort of thing will result in crooks being apprehended at the scene.

Was I a California voter, however, I'd ask "what's this going to cost?" I'd ask inconvenient questions like: "How much extra will we now spend at the Crime Lab trying to read and run-down those microstamps?" And "If we're gonna spend money at the crime lab, shouldn't we use it to narrow down the backlog of fingerprints, &c?" And, "Gee, maybe if we permanently jailed the people who persistently break into homes, steal cars, fence stolen property, sell drugs, &c, wouldn't we get a huge reduction in violent crimes anyhow?"

Trent M.

The Nuge is a clown. Does he really think that crap helps?

He just furthers the toothless yelling hillbilly stereotype that is already too prevelent.

We need real spokesmen, not show boating rock stars.

This is NOT helping...


My apologies for a double post, but....

Just pulled this quote straight from the Coalition to stop gun violence (CSGV) website referenced in Mr. Petzel's blog;

"The technology would greatly aid law enforcement officials in investigating homicides and other crimes by allowing them to trace firearms through cartridge casings found at crime scenes (officials would not need to recover the crime gun itself)."

What should be immediately obvious is that anyone could pick up brass from an indoor range and swap it with the crime scene brass. Now even if/when the cops figure out they've been slipped a red herring, you have all that time wasted and an inoccent person hassled by the misdirection. But apparently the CSGV is okay with just finding the brass because that's all you'd really need to find a killer, right?. Kind of makes you wish these people would go play in traffic.


Nugent being Nugent, on the positive side he exhuberantly publicly enjoys hunting and has helped a few of the more open minded glitterati take to the fields. I like his unapologetic style!
Microstamping; either the CSGV and a huge number of Kalifornia law makers are clueless about this thing or they have a different end in mind. Worthless in crime solving. Guaranteed to add to the cost of new semi-automatic handguns OR the manufacturers will simply choose not to sell in Kalifornia either way mission accomplished for the anti's.


Forgot to add; the what's wrong with this picture is that the 'smoking gun' in their webpage is a revolver - unaffected by the proposed law!


Wouldn't you need some type of database to link the gun to the owner? This sounds a lot like a back door registration.


This whole issue is asinine and will cost us, shooting enthusiasts, a fortune in the end. Needless to say laws such as this will lead to the gun - not necessarily the shooter. (Jamming up lawabiding citiznens who happen to be in the chain of custody of that particular weapon).

Frankly, we could put RFID tags in all new firearms, paint them bright orange and have to ask police to go the range - and it still woulnd't prevent violence within the seedier element of society - since the criminals don't buy their firearms through legitamate channels.

Criminals are criminals because they don't follow the law. Clearly the brady campaign is run by wonks who see things as they are on paper - not how they are in reality.

BTW: Revolvers, particulary the .38 and .22, are the weapon of choice for criminals anyhow.


Microstamping wont't work. The thugs will just steal revolvers and shoot you 6 times instead of 15. What a joke!!!

The only point of this legislation is to drive the cost of semi-autos up to the point that people won't pay the price. If you can't ban guns make them so expensive to own that it isn't worth it.

Nugent is over the top, no question. But his heart seems pure and he definetly keeps gun ownership on the front page.

I personally feel someone like Tom Selleck would be a more effective spokesperson for the rights of gun owners. He's well liked by many Americans and presents a good image.


Sorry folks, but here goes....
I really wish celebrities would stop using their fame to further their stance on any political front. Whether it be Rosie O. or Ted N.
I don't need these people trying to sway me either direction. I KNOW where I stand.
It would be interesting to know how many people are now anti-firearm simply because "Best Actor" of the series "Lay 'em all Down!" says guns are bad and only bad people would own them.
Dan Blocker played "Hoss" Cartwright on "Bonanza". I read an article once that Dan stated, "I'll allow my kids to hunt deer when the deer can shoot back!"
Personally, I think Ted Nugent is a fruit cake! Okay, that's just my opinion. I take my hat off to Ted as a bow hunter. I don't like his music, don't like his show! But that's just me! I won't waste my time telling you how I feel about Rosie and her opinions. My dad always told me, "I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of knowing I even care!"(about their opinion)
We need to listen to our own hearts, we need to vote our hearts. We need to listen to reason.
Our lawmakers should be listening to their constituency, not their own agenda! An elected official has no room for an agenda outside his/her own home. He/she should be backing the people they represent instead of deciding, "I'm going to do what's best for them whether they like it or not!"
I am not an essayist, I wish I could write like Thomas Paine when he wrote "Common Sense". Take the time to read his "rantings" at that point in time. Surprising how closely related his ideas are to our current situation!
I'll stop now before I end up saying something even more stupid than I've already said!
Thanks for the opportunity F&S!!


Nuge can be a knucklehead at times - but his intensions are good.

Additionally - that video aside - he can be very articulate and persuasive when called upon.

I do think though - that his rant did more harm than good.

WA Mtnhunter

Yep, all the LA gangbangers will have to stop "spray down " drive-by's and learn to shoot revolvers well.

My idea of gun control is a well placed double tap from my .357 wheelgun.

Does anyone take Nuge seriously? Watch his TV show and then answer that for yourself.


Uncle Ted may not have used the best choice of words but at least he has the backbone to stand up for his beliefs and not worry about offending the liberal gun grabbers who "would be king". We could all take a lesson from him and stand up for ourselves and quit being so politically correct. Go get 'em, Nuge!


Ted Nugent is the worst kind of human being--a perpetual juvenile.

His rantings, ravings, appearance, and public disposition do very little to enhance the image of gun owners in America.

Go read the post on his site sometime, the majority of them are fascistic at best.

We really need to find a better spokesperson.

Walt Smith

I agree with jstreet's comments completly, micro stamping is a big joke-it will never work like they think it will and every half-smart criminal will find a way around it if it does. whats to stop a criminal from going to a shooting range and picking up a law abiding citizen's shell casings and then dropping them at a crime scene? Presto -instant frame job that would be nearly impossible to defend yourself against.GOOD THINKING BOYS and GIRLS!! And about Nuget, I'm sure he means well but his Bla Bla Bla is better left at his concerts instead of in front of reporters, Tom Selleck would be a much better person for the NRA to have speaking for them especially with a election coming up.


Maybe we do need a better spokesman but I don't see too many getting in line for the job, too afraid to stand up and be counted.

James G

What's to keep someone from driving across state lines and purchasing a non-microstamping firearm? Seems like it will only cost legitimate gun owners who want to buy a new pistol more money.

Smart criminals would just use old guns that don't microstamp and the ones dumb enough to use a microstamping pistol would probably have been caught by doing something else moronic anyway.

John Russo

The obvious issue I see on the www.csvg.org site is: one of the pictures in the banner shows a male with his finger on the trigger of a pistol while placing it in his pocket. Is that what you were talking about Dave?


Nugent's on-stage rantings are a part of his act. He's doing nothing more than making declarations, not threats. It's a common part of his show - nothing unique in this bit.

As for the micro-stamping, it is easily by-passed (pick up your brass, salt the crime scene with casings from another firearm, use a stolen pistol, use a revolver, use an older weapon)

It has a high "gee-whiz" factor, but a negative public policy rating.

BTW - microprinting is used extensively on color printers. Forensic investigators can identify the serial number of a color printer and trace its ownership through sale and warranty information. (the S/N is micro-printed in yellow ink on white paper on the margin.) So - when printing nastygrams - don't use a color printer.


In response to the "what's wrong with this picture?": Is that rifle ammo in the header of a website of an anti-handgun organization?


I’m desperately seeking the article of the 10 best gunsmiths, I live in NJ and I’m in serious need of one, long story but to get right down to it my father’s model 70 in 30.06 suddenly won’t hold a group. Leupold has rebuilt the scope, the rings have been inspected, the barrel meticulously cleaned and inspected, along with the crown and no improvement. The gun lugs have also been torqued to specs. It’s been reliable for 40+ years without a terrible number of rounds run through it. Our hand loaded ammunition proves accurate in other rifles and the particular load has been shot out of this gun for 10 + years without any modifications whatsoever Bullets all from same boxes bought by the case, same powders, primers, every charge weighed. Something isn’t right and with all our trying we just can’t lay a finger on it.


Your -06 Suddenly won't hold a group? Sounds like a stock issue; perhaps even a crack but more likely a minor change in the bedding where some of the wood is bearing on the barrel.
Right on the rifle ammo in the header but does anyone with half a brain expect these gun-grabbers to stop at handguns? I'm thinking I am going to buy a couple of extra 'WristRocket' slingshots to bury because they'll be after those next!

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