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September 24, 2007

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Mondo Bizzaro: Politicians, Guns, and Election Season

This past Friday, Rudy Giuliani and a number of other republican candidates spoke to the NRA's Conference on American Values. Giuliani's appearance was strange beyond words. It was rather like Rosie O'Donnell speaking at Princeton's Institute for Advanced Study. Few active politicians have done as much as Rudy to make life hard for guns and gun owners. The sum of what he had to say amounted to, in my words:

"I know I've been an anti-gun prick for my entire career, but now that I need your votes, I'm a different guy."

Then he took a cell phone call from his wife. Different interpretations have been placed on this, but mine is, he's simply as rude as every other jerk who is slave to a cell phone.

I think the only honest dialog between a politician and the NRA took place in 1966 or 1967 when Bobby Kennedy spoke to the organization and, in a room that seethed with mutual hatred, said:

"I'm going to put you people out of business."

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Comments

Bill in VA

Is Rudy right handed and left eye dominant? I thought this was a politics post??!!

I agree that Rudy has been an anti-gun turd all his career. It seems like all the NYC "Republicans" are just Dems who couldn't get their own parties nomination. He did a great job leading his city on 9/11, but I don't think he is up to leading the nation. I do not trust him on RKBA issues at all.

I think we need another column from Dave on the eye dominance issue. My son is also right handed but left eye dominant. He has learned to shoot OK by closing his left eye, but that doesn't work for everyone. Some are better off learning to shoot left handed. BTW, the new M16 series rifles have a brass deflector molded into the upper reciever so lefties can shoot them without eating hot brass.

Greg

DAMN Bubba I think we are long lost brothers. we definitely have like minds. With name Bubba and your views I'm guessin you're from the south? I'm not generalizing, ok maybe i am but I know alot of people from dixie that think like us. I feel like most politicians are probably criminals. Who's been caught and who has'nt. Guess I have to vote for the lesser of the evils. IF YOU DON"T VOTE DON"T BITCH. Lets be heard get out and vote.

SilverArrow

To Gary way above:
Yes there is an opening clause to the Second Amendment. The left use it to attempt to argue that only the Militia has the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Hogwash! No sovereign nation or state ever had to constitutionally give itself the right to arms and defense! The Bill of Rights was specifically intended to give Individual Citizens rights that most nations usurp or deny their people.

In the papers and drafts leading up to the final version of the Bill of Rights one finds indication of some dissent on this ammendment; Jefferson for one wanted it to more clearly convey the right to the individual, others didn't want it included at all. Jefferson's version would have read "Notwithstanding that a well regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state; the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." or something to that effect.

Admittedly it has been a while since I have taken Constitutional History so my specific verbiage may vary some from that of the Founding Fathers.
SA

Old Yukon

Gary,

No one is cutting the 2nd Amendment in half if they only quote what you call "the second part." In fact, that "second part" is the primary part, called the Independent Clause of the sentence. It's called that because its meaning is independent of the depedent or secondary clause.

Some people will call the secondary the modifying clause (Your "first part" of the Second Amendment.) to imply that it somehow changes the meaning of the subject, modifying "people" into "militia" simply because the dependent clause is limited to the militia. This is not the way the English language works. People still means people, the right to keep and bear arms still means exactly that. (These are the subject and predicate, essentially the core of the meaning of the sentence, the Amendment.) Despite that the dependent clause is limited to the militia, the independent clause is not; it is independent. Check out the latest English language manual you can find.

The dependent clause of the 2nd Amendment is an explanatory type of dependent clause which in no way changes the impact or effect of the independent clause, much less its meaning. Nowadays this kind of dependent clause would usually be preceded by words like "since" or "because." (The Founding Father's language is much more elegant.) To put it in more contempary English: "Because a well-trained militia is necessary for the security of a free state" does not modifiy the meaning of "the people have a right to keep and bear arms." "The calcium in milk and the protein in eggs being ncecessary to a a balanced diet, especially for children, people should have the right to choose whatever they want for breakfast." That does not limit breakfast to being the only healthy meal of the day, does not limit breakfast to just eggs and milk, and does not limit healthful eating and food choice only to children. See the point?

It's also a matter of logic. The narrow excludes the possibility of the broader only when it specifically says so. For example, the use of "or" in a sentence does not exlude the possiblity of "and." "And" may in most uses exclude "or." "Might" does not automatically exlude "must." "Must" almost definitely excludes "might." The 2nd Amendment use of the word "militia" in one context (the necessity of training the militia) does not exclude the broader people's right. Just the opposite, the "people" of the independent clause expands the possibilities beyond the more limited "militia" of the dependent. If it hte Amendment doesn't say it's limited exclusively to the militia, it isn't.

Mr. Souped-Up Auto,

Silver Arrow answered you rather overwhelmingly -- auto licensing and registration is permissive -- gun licensing and registration is intentially restrictive, pre-emptive, and usually imposes criminal liability for acts previously not considered criminal -- i.e. it's a way to get around the traditional legal principle that both mens rea (guilty mind) and actus reus (guilty act) are required for criminal sanctions. Get them just for having the gun before they can try to use it criminally. However, our criminal law is not supposed to be preventative, but retributive -- not punishing because we are capable of committing a crime (have a gun)or even considering committing a crime (are mad or crazy enough to use it), but only after we have intentionally commmitted the crime -- that is used it violently. Gun collecting is not a crime; gun control says it is, at least if the guns aren't registered and the collector isn't licensed. That alone is a Constitutional problem from more than one standpoint.

I'd just like to further point out that auto registration and driver licensing began as taxation devices to build roads. Driver Ed was pasted on to that at a much later date. If the purpose of gun registration and owner licensing was to acquire hunting land for us, to build lots of pretty shooting ranges near our homes, and the consequences of us not paying our gun taxes or keeping our licenses up was a mere ticket -- a slap on the hand rather than confiscation, prison, and massive fines -- there wouldn't be as much objection. The point of gun control is to limit our ability, financially or legally, to have guns. Period. And to confiscate them however possible. It's not just the Second Amendment that makes this objectionable and unconstitutional.

Chev Jim

I'd hate to sit out this eletion because neither political party thinks we should have universal health care. Don't tell me it doesn't work, because I lived in Europe for ten years, and I have traveled extensively through Canada, and all the people I've talked to in those countries tell me that it does work. What does NOT work is paying exorbitant premiums for health insurance, and having some "shoe clerk" tell you that a certain illness or procedure is not covered. We are the only major Western nation that is putting up with this bullshit. We are putting up with it because our politicians are in the pockets of the health insurance companies. Neither party wants to do anything about it: the Dems trot out gays and gun control to get our minds on other subjects, and the Republicans cry "tax and spend!" Well, we could pay a tax for health care that would much less than the insurance payments most of us are making. Just in case you're wondering how our health care system ranks--the World Heath Organization ranks it just ahead of Slovenia and Cuba. Check it out. We deserve a hell of a lot better!

Will Becker

Rudy has a good personality,and is electable,but he AIN'T one of us. Vote for Fred.

JA Demko

We aren't going to have a pro-gun POTUS. We haven't had one since JFK.
LBJ signed the GCA of 1968.
Milhouse personally hated guns and expanded the Fed alphabet agencies and started the whole "War on {insert name of inanimate object here}" meme.
Geral Ford lobbied for the renewal of the Assault Weapons Ban.
Jimmy Carter was notably anti-handgun, nominated Abner Mikva as appeals judge to the DC Circuit Court, and lobbied for the AWB and its renewal.
Ronald Reagan froze the machine gun registry, banned import of several guns by executive order, and later lobbied for the AWB. Also signed some very restrictive legislation into law while gov. of CA.
Geo. Bush I banned import of a number of guns by executive order and renounced his NRA membership.
Bill Clinton_I hope we all remember him clearly enough that I needn't recount his perfidious deeds.
GWB hasn't done a thing for us. The AWB sunset happened despite him, not because of him. He stated several times that he would sign a renewal of the ban.
The best we can hope for is another GWB-style benign tumor as opposed to a Bill Clinton-style malignancy.

mr.b

Bravo! Tip my hat to OldYukon, and RockyMtnHunter. Well said to you both!

Jim Kiser

And the reason all those Canucks coming here for medical treatment is? What? Probably the same reason everyone calls on Uncle Sugar Daddy for everything else. Cause they can't get it elsewhere.

Richard Smith

Rudy and McCain are really Democrats, but are either too stupid to realize it, or too dishonest to admit it. Of course, I'm not real sure about the Republicans, but, at the moment, I would have to flip a coin to decide between Romney, Thompson and Paul, each for different reasons. (Now I just have to find a three-sided coin.) On the other hand, we could write-in Newt or maybe even Jim Kiser (above).

The comparison of a license to drive and a license to own a firearm is invalid: self-defense is a right, driving is not. Any attempt to limit, control or revoke the right to self-defense is a violation of the 2nd Amendment and a trampling of natural, God-given human rights.

Hal: regarding the right-handed and left-eyed thing: I think there are shooting glasses available that have the left eye shaded or something so that you can't see anything out of the left eye. That might be a way to help your boy train his eyes. If that doesn't help, our host is an expert, I would follow his advice. Good luck.

Dennis

It kills me to think so many of you people are convinced the candidates really have our gun issues in mind one way or the other. "Oh my gosh if a democrat is elected God help us! Oh no! hide your guns!!!" Its even worse that the gun issue is the only thing some of you seem to be concerned with when it comes to picking your candidate. I'm a little more concerned with even having a place to take my kids hunting in ten years and having affordable health insurance than what kind of restrictions might be placed on owning an assault rifle. Placing someone like Thompson over Clinton as far as whos better qualified to be president is ridiculous. But hey "hes a straight talker and says whats on his mind." Yeah so is Bush and we see how that worked out. You can quote the second amendment all day but when it comes to the fourth fifth and so on, something tells me some of you might not be so up to speed on it. Then again if it werent for so many of you "Uncle Ted" wouldnt have anything to make an ass of himself in public or at the next NRA rally, while he is supposeldy representing gun owners in America. That coward dosent speak for me and sets a poor example. Oh yea the NRA could give a rats ass about your individual rights as well. They are more concerned with the industry. Not You. Wake up and get your heads out of your asses. Take a look around and maybe reflect somewhat on what the hell has happend in this country for the last seven years.

SilverArrow

Let's see; six years ago this month America was attacked by an enemy which our former president ignored and allowed to gain strength. We have had multiple large scale natural disasters which we were unprepared for. Neither party can be lauded for the responses to any of the events. There are individual heroes; usually unsung, and individuals who sunk to new behavioral lows (such as the small percentage of New Orleans cops who became looters with the mobs).
Amidst it all politicians from both parties have slung mud at each other while attempting to claim praise for their own.

Yet; people from all over the world still want to come live here to seize the opportunity UNIQUE to The United States of America to make a better life for their families! Those fortunate enough to come here aren't the ones bitching about our health care system, aren't the ones bitching about our schools, aren't the ones bitching about the (very necessary) war on terrorism. They are busily working two jobs to make the Dream a reality and happily doing so I can say.

I say to you, Chev Jim and Dennis; go to the UK and 'Queue up' to see your health care provider, go to Brazil and buy a gallon of gasoline, just try to breathe clean air in much of Eastern Europe, go to almost any other country and try to buy a sporting firearm.

Can we do better than we are in providing health care? Yes! Can we do better education, insurance, disaster response, the environment? Of course! When we vote out the politicos who are elbow deep in the pockets of the special interest lobbyists and elect independent thinkers with a mindset to 'Git 'er done!'

Guns are not the only issue on my concern list; I abhor the ever encroaching 'Big Brother' government, I look at the environment, health care, education and personal freedom as well!
SA

Dr. Ralph

"Placing someone like Thompson over Clinton as far as who's better qualified is ridiculous"... come on now Dennis, do you really believe that steaming pile of crap or are you spreading propaganda? Something tells me you're not up to speed. Hillary has been a Senator since January 2001. That gives her less than seven years real life experience as a politician unless you count hiding files in the living quarters of the White House. The Democrats love to tout this person as the smartest woman in America but her husband has been banging everything that bent over in front of him since they met and she never figured it out until it became front page news. She wants the government to take over 15% of our nation's economy (health care). Have you been to the DMV lately? How's that Social Security thing working out?

Fred Thompson was a Senator for nine years, was counsel for the Senate Watergate Committee, and has basically done everything he can to get government off our backs. He enacted a law that required government agencies to calculate how much their regulations would cost businesses and taxpayers, and has been our best friend pointing out waste and fraud by Uncle Sam. He also opened an investigation into the Chinese governments "attempts" to influence American politics by donating big bucks to guess who? The Clinton fundraising efforts! He discovered six donors who were laundering money for the Chinese and donating it to the Clinton administration and two Democratic fundraisers who had direct ties to Chinese intelligence agencies.

Oh yeah and Dave, start writing about guns again... good enough RMH?

Bubba

Greg

If you are still around, yup, reb!Texan by birth.

Don't know how health care got into a gun blog, but here goes! Someone very close to me works in the health care industry. Every day, they tell me of the ills and woes of our present "insurance" system and the quality of the care received. If you don't have insurance, you're shuffled to the back of the line with the insured are allowed to go ahead. This is especially true in regards to trauma or serious illness. This is because the more work a Dr. does to the insured, the more $ he gets while his philanthropy gains him only what the facility pays him for his work. He is unable to contort the system for additional reward. If his goal in life is becoming a millionaire, you can bet he will shuffle you down. A "REAL" Dr. will treat you regardless of ability to pay. I know, I go to one.
The problem with socialized medicine is: Patients are served on a first come, first serve basis. The severity of your illness doesn't allow line shuffling, i.e. - cancer ahead of cold.
The Dr. is paid by the government, he has no incentive to either heal nor speed up the process. One patient per day pays the same as three hundred.
Neither system is perfect, my pal says, but would rather have imperfect insurance system than improved social system.

Bubba

Greg

Hey Bubba, Im still here. knew you were a southerner. Not to down anyone from anywhere else in the country,yea here comes the BUT. In my life experience most "REBS" that I know have a high moral compass. I hope I do too.Now before I piss any "YANKEES" off let me say my entire family is from the north. By the grace of god I was born in the south. Let me get off my pulpit. Im just saying seems to be more conservatives that think like me in the south.Im lucky like Bubba and have a great doctor that aint to worried about money i.e. orthopedic surgeon Ive gotten pretty close to after an entire year,three surgeries and about 103,000 dollar bill. he doesnt care about the bottom dollar just the patient. For such a dumb-ass I am truly blessed.How the hell did we get on health care? I hate politics but I vote and I will be heard!!!! Like my favorite Pres. said "They will take my guns when they pry my cold dead fingers from them!" A quote from Charlton Heston if you didnt know.By the way Im from KY,AL and AR.

Dennis

Ralph,
I would be most interested in your source regarding Mr. Thompson's accomplishments, the outcome of his investigation regarding the "Clinton" money laundering thing and the disposition of said investigation. Also, maybe you could tell me exactly who Mr. Thompson (if he were to be elected) might fill his cabinet with, considering he dosent seem to no himself. Maybe some fellow cast members? Sure plenty of people come here in pursuit of a better life for themselfs. FROM MEXICO. I havent met to many immigrants from Canada or Europe trying to escape the poor living conditions in their own countries. And Greg "most REBS I know dont have a high moral compass?" Are you serious? Is it the whole equal rights, thinking women and blacks should be able to vote or something? Gimme a break

Greg

Damn Dennis! The people I surround myself with do have high moral compass. My friends are black,white,mexican,male,female.Makes no difference to me of ones ethnicity. I judge people by their hearts and minds!So be real careful generalizing people you dont know.Maybe you need to meet the "REBS" I know.Man I hope we are on the same side so lets quit this crap. Id like to know what you think about this Bubba?

Greg

Dennis, your last comment was straight out of the 1860s. Come on man lets get together on the real issues.

SilverAArrow

Dennis
I can introduce you to Frenchmen, Polish people, Russians, Germans, Brits not to mention Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese immegrants all of whom have come to The United States for the UNIQUE opportunity to succeed on their own hard work and achieve this Dream of ours!
Given a few more minutes I can find Canadians, Fillipinos, Brazilians, Australians all having immegrated...
As for US Citizens going north for prescriptions or even surgery; the Canadians are happy to have some paying customers to offset the staggering cost of running their socialized medical system at a barely adequate level. Paying Americans bump Canadians to the back of the line. Someone from the states undergoing Lasix vision correction or other cosmetic procedures goes ahead of a Canadian needing a biopsy.
SA

Dennis

Bubba,
I'm sure, for the most part we are on the same side. The last comment I made was intended to be sarcastic. Kind of a joke. Sorry if I offended. In regards to our health care system, your kidding yourself if you believe its not a broken system that the drug companys and politicians have a strangle hold on for their own profit. As for other countries I do have a British friend who married an American and lives here now. He has explained to me that their system of Health care isn't perfect but is at no cost and the claims made by many American politicians that socialized medical care is inefficent and leads to days, weeks or months for care is simply a lie. I guess I just get aggravated with the "well this politician is pro gun and best represents me and my point of view" Really? On what issues other than gun control for example? I'm convinced some Americans would vote for a candidate soley based on a gun issue or what they said at an NRA rally. Forget about what they have or have not done for conservation, the environment, these are things that should be important to individuals reading a F&S blog!!!! Am alone here?

Jim Kiser

I have to admit I enjoy reading all the responses and remarks. To someone who mentioned the need to know all the amendments you are right many if not most Americans especially younger people have no idea what the original 10 amendemnts were. I have a copy of the Constitution and the Bill of rights and the greatest document of all time the Declaration of Independence. There are problems here in our country but they are fixable if you can get a centralized goverment out of the way. If we follow the founders intended thinking we would not have half the goverment agencies we have now. The founders intended goverment to operate at the lowest possible level. The higher we move decision making in goverment the less responsive it is to local conditions and the slower the response to a situation. ( see 9/11 and Katrina) You do not want your emergency services operated by the Feds. You want it local and run by locals. The same with your schools etc. If you want to know for example what Hillary care will look like go to a VA clinic or hospital.
One of the reasons we as a nation are in such dire straights is that we have wandered to far from the path our founders laid before us, individual rights and responsibilities(!), to serve with honor ( which means without reward) and as George Washington, the greatest president this country will ever see saw as his duty, to be a Horatio in the service of the nation. They saw the people as the greatest strength of our nation ( look at the WW2 vets). To Michael don't give up hope they're are a lot of us out here, we're just quiet. To Richard I have been asked several times by local citizens to run for office. The problem is the press will destroy you and your family for any little thing you have done in the past, being a typical person, I have my share of skeletons I am not proud of, nothing major, but my wife made it clear being a pol would mean divorce. The founders were not perfect as so many revisionists like to point out with glee, how ever they saw public service as something different than the present day pols do. I see it the same way they do, you step up do the job for a period of time and go back to your farm when the job si done. They could not forsee a permament "royalty" that sees us as "serfs". I worked as a Firefighter for 30 years till injuries forced me out and I can tell you that goverment as we know it is broken and will not be able to handle the next 911. If we do not turn around the idea of Uncle Sugar Daddy taking care of every need for every person this country will cease to exist in about 10-15 years. Fred Thompson and Ron Paul seem to be the closest of all the candidates to understanding the proper role of the federal goverment and the relationship it has with local areas and state goverments.

Lester M. Kolbinsky

Well boys and girls if you want to keep you're guns, you had better get out and vote in 08 or you're guns will be gone in 09. The Dem's can't wait to get their hands on them. Once they get them it will be smooth sailing for them to start pushing their socialistic ideas on us. The dem's are socialist decised as do gooders who will handle all you're problems for you, you don't even need to think they will do it for you, not that they think you can do it on you're own anyway. They will handle everything, you're money, what you can and cannot do, or when you can do it. I myself am able to think on my own, I don't need Hillary and her gang to do it for me.

Dennis

Jim,
Wow that was really well said. It seems to me though, the ideals that are supposed to be Republican in nature ie: less govt control, smaller govt, intervention in our lives by govt ect, dont exist and have seemingly gotten worse under the current administration.
Lester,
refer to my comments above. You seem to embody the very individual I'm talking about.

Dennis

Jim,
Wow that was really well said. It seems to me though, the ideals that are supposed to be Republican in nature ie: less govt control, smaller govt, intervention in our lives by govt ect, dont exist and have seemingly gotten worse under the current administration.
Lester,
refer to my comments above. You seem to embody the very individual I'm talking about.

JA Demko

You know, Lester, all you just said about the Democrats may be perfectly true; but The Decider and and Gang of Corporate Whores have basically wiped their behinds with all the Republican Party is supposed to stand for. If your point was that we have no choice but to vote Republican just to save ourselves from Hillary, I don't agree. Both parties have made it their only real platform to sodomize us on taxes and destroy the bill of rights. They differ ONLY in where they want to start.




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