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June 08, 2007

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The Great Crossbow Debate

Field & Stream is running a beginner’s guide to crossbows in its August issue, and the editors want to hear your opinion on where the weapons belong in the hunting landscape. Should they be considered just another bow? Or should they be banned from archery seasons? Read David E. Petzal and Anthony Licata's positions (below), then tell us what you think.

Crossbows, Compounds ... Who Cares?
By Deputy Editor David E. Petzal

This blog is supposed to be about guns, but a good argument is a good argument, so why not?

The crossbow was invented in China, certainly by 200 B.C., and possibly as early as 600 B.C. Like gunpowder, its use eventually spread to Europe, where people used it to shoot each other. The first person who really didn’t like crossbows was Pope Innocent II. In 1139 he and the Lateran Council outlawed the use of the crossbow (except on non-Christians) declaring that skill with it was a “deadly art, hateful to God.” In 1146 it was outlawed throughout Europe, but then, as now, people paid no attention to weapons bans.

Crossbows were for short range only, and their rate of fire, compared to the longbow, was very slow. But their advantage was that the average ignorant dung-encrusted peasant required little training in order to use one, while it took a lifetime of practice to produce a competent longbowman. Firearms made the crossbow obsolete as a military weapon, but it remained popular for hunting.

People still hate crossbows because, compared to a conventional bow, they supposedly require little skill; and they remove the single greatest handicap of the conventional bow by letting you keep an arrow “cocked and locked” indefinitely. Users of stickbows and compounds brood on this and become enraged. “Unsporting,” they bellow, and demand that crossbows be outlawed for hunting.

This is pretty thin logic. If you compare a crossbow to a compound, there are two differences. One is the stock. The other is, you can put a scope sight on a crossbow. But how much advantage is a scope over fiber optic sights? A crossbow is still a 40-yard tool, just like a compound. Is the stock that big a deal? I tend to doubt it. A lot of animals are taken each year by hunters who have to draw their bows just before they shoot, so really, is it that hard?

Unless you want to limit people to stickbows and flintlocks, drop the hypocrisy. A crossbow is just a bow, albeit one with a handle, and it belongs in archery seasons as sure as any modern compound does.

Crossbows Are Great, But They’re Not Bows
By Deputy Editor Anthony Licata

I think it’s ridiculous that in 22 states crossbows are either completely illegal for hunting or an option for handicapped hunters only. There is no logical reason for this third-rate status. But there is a time and place for everything, and while crossbows are a fine choice for any general hunting season, they do not belong in archery-only seasons.

First, some simple facts. Crossbows and modern compound bows are so similar in ballistic performance that they are both 40-yard weapons. A Crossbow is easier to fire accurately because of its sights, stock, and ability to be braced during the shot. But to be fair, with advances in design, components, and mechanical releases, modern compounds are getting easier to master as well.

There is one essential difference between the two. Because you can cock and load a crossbow, you eliminate what any bowhunter will tell you is the sport’s biggest challenge: drawing an arrow undetected on an animal standing within 40 yards.

Some say, so what? Isn’t it better to do anything that gets more hunters in the field? They claim that by banning crossbows from bow seasons, we’re dividing our hunting fraternity and playing right into the hands of antihunters.

Forgive me for not following the party line, but the idea that setting separate seasons for different types of weapons somehow makes us vulnerable to antihunters is foolish and paranoid. In fact, I think that primitive weapons’ seasons actually help hunting.

To me, the whole point of primitive seasons is to acknowledge and reward the idea that hunting should be hard. In our daily lives we welcome every technological advancement that helps us do things easier and faster. But don’t we hunt to get away from all that? Hunting is about using ancient, primal skills in a way that respects nature and the animals we pursue. Once we accept technology over competence and instant gratification before sacrifice, we forfeit what makes hunting so much more than a pastime or hobby. The biggest threat to hunting isn’t division within our own ranks--it’s the ethic that considers more hunters killing more deer as the ultimate end, no matter the means.

Certainly the advances in modern compounds and in-line muzzleloaders have eroded some of the meaning of primitive seasons. But let’s try to preserve what is left of their spirit. If you’re a junior hunter or an injury prevents you from pulling back a compound, then I think a crossbow is fine during bow season. Otherwise, work on your skills, and let’s keep our archery seasons for bows that you actually have to draw before you shoot.

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Comments

Calycpooer, I dont have enough respect for you to give a damn how your name is spelled.

Dr Quincy Md.

Myself and fellow medical collegues have been studying 500 crossbowers and what causes the whining laziness and need for crossbows. Here is what we have found;

Many of the subjects had 4 thumbs, which explains clumsiness and poor hand eye coordination.

All displayed bulbous protruding paunch.

All dislayed small, weak nearly useless arms (similar to tyranosaurus rex)

All had at least 2 and in some instances as many as 5 chins.

499 were born without scrotum.

1 was injured crossing a barbwire fence.

In many cases it was found to be hereditary and the suject as well as their lineage were the genetic equivalent of human waste!

The first step to breaking the cycle has been found. The prescription- USE A BOW!

Brian

I live in Ontario where a crossbow is as accepted as a vertical bow and is used in the same archery season, and is seen in the woods just as much as any other type of archery equipment. There is no problem or debate that I have ever heard of here. It's just another fellow hunter in the outdoors trying to track down his share of the venison. And as to which piece of equipment I use? Mind your own business! I'm going hunting.

Henry

My state is 1/10 the size of Ontario and has nearly 10 times the hunters. What works in one place just might not in another.

No to crossbows.

What weapon? I dont think we need to guess very much!

You're going hunting?? Typical crossbower. Poaching. Out of season son.

Juice

Man, crossbows rock and should have their own season. But they really aren't archery equipment and are basically like a silenced and short-ranged gun.

Crossbows have their place....In rifle season.

Harryspotter

We have them here in Ohio. You want to talk about a bunch of sorry slobs? Ride past the public hunting areas and you'll see things that will make you drop your jaw in amazement.

Hunting on those lands are a joke. Bozos smoking, talking loudly, walking wrecklessly, UNBELIEVABLE!

Zack J

You dont use rifles in muzzleloader. You dont use crossbows in archery.

There are states that have no RIFLE season. You dont hear the muzzleloaders and shotgunners cry for them! Why do the crossbowers think they should be special?

If you want to shoot a crossbow, do it at paper. On a preserve, or during gun season.

A-OK for disabled!

Trae B.

I think its been done the amazing unsolvable problem.the anti and supporters are completly evened out on their arguments.hell just froze over.

Po-Qing

http://www.silencertests.com/

Clay Cooper

Po-Qing

Congratulations Sir!

You have just been entered the Hall Of Intellectually Challenged!

And you Anti Crossbowers,

Want me to call a WWWAAAAAAAmbulance for you!

How about some cheese with that whine!

O’CRY ME A RIVER!

You’d complain if your hot chocolate is hot!

Clay Cooper

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out and see that these anti-Xbowers act just like the anti-gun crowed. With there lack of words replaced by drinking from there own toilet and making physical threats, then how can anyone side with irrational behavior of the anti crowed, yet alone to approve them to be in the possession of any weapon! They give me the feeling that they are criminally insane! Even the anti-gun crowed is guilty of violating their very own stance and arrested for the illegal possession and the use of a firearm that there totally against and the possession of.

It’s no wonder that I refer to them as the intellectually challenged!

XBXBXBXBXBXBXBXBXBXBXBXBXBXBXBXXBXBXBXBXBOW

HEY’ Brian in Ontario, where a crossbow is as accepted as a vertical bow and is used in the same archery season.

Thank You Sir Brian, for those words of truth and wisdom! Back in June of 86,
I busted the trailer tongue in half going to Alaska by Cold Lake. A Farmer, GOD BLESS THIS MAN! Repaired my trailer at no cost to me and was done better than the factory!

Brian in Ontario, YOUR ARE A GREAT AMERICAN, EVEN IF YOU LIVE IN ONTARIO!

Like I said TIME AND TIME AGAIN!

I don’t own nor have the desire to own a crossbow. I am a Pro-Sportsman defending the rights of other Sportsmen.

I do love my High Country Archery Four Runner!
The bow is now seven years old and have not found a bow worthy enough to replace it! HCA is now a part of Mathews bow company for you intellectually challenged. 310 fps, 28 inch Gold Tip, 100 grain 3 blade muzzy, Bushnell bow mounted hands free laser range finder, silent and deadly accurate!

Clay Cooper

Did I say?

Bushnell bow mounted hands free laser range finder?

How can that be?

Easier to use than a Cross Bow without the bulk!

Hands free laser range finder at full draw!

O’my, don’t let the Anti’s know that.

They’ll comment suicide!

Clay Cooper

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

HA HA HA!

Yohan is a fag Yohan is a fag Yohan is a fag Yohan is a fag Yohan is a fag Yohan is a fag YohanYohan

Robert Silvers created the Silencer Tests (TM) publication (now called SilencerTalk) to provide a level playing field for those who wish to evaluate silencer performance. Mr. Silvers is a Photographer and Artist who holds a degree in Computer Science from the University of Massachusetts as well as a Master of Media Arts and Sciences from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Mr. Silvers now designs silencers for AAC and no longer does independent testing.


Yohan is antigun

Yohan is antigun

Beef Cake

To: Japan hit with 7.0 Quake


Re: Kremlin tears up Soviet-era arms treaty with NATO -

In response to:
UK Army faces `failure' in Afghanistan Wonder who's making the shemale/faggot posts

NO TO CROSSBOWS! CLAY IS A GOOFBALL.

Thanks for the Boards Buddy ? The "List"

Posted By: Buddy (64.219.87.245)
Date: 7/16/07 19:23

List of 2007 Free Lunch Supporters w/Comments....as of Today 7/16 6pm CST

Of ALL the guys that post in their ads..."Thanks for the Boards Buddy"...
Here are the Ones That Can BACK UP that Comment .........
Notice how it is mostly the same guys that ALWAYS Donate....Time and Time again
In Fact most listed below NEVER Post....
they simply enjoy the boards and wanted to "Buy me Lunch"

Which begs to ask....Where are ALL the other guys that post here on a regular basis?
You know .... the Guys that post Over and Over...Week after Week......
There are Only a FEW...and they are listed below....
There sure are a LOT Missing from the List Below........

To the Guys that Donated during this 2007 Free Lunch Program......


THANKS Guys !!
David Lape
Ross in VA
Albert Tridenti
Bob Grant aka J/B Sales
Ken Keilholz / Wedgewood Weaponry
Mike Woodward @ TSC Machine www.tscmachine.com
Frank Goepfert / Frank’s Guns
David Cheung aka TGS, LLC The Gun Store
Lee Carpentier at Defense Procurement International Inc. / DPI
Jerry Prasser / Recon Ordnance
Lee Novak / Center Mass Firearms
Jim Corby / Side Arm Sams
BIG John Barone J&D Sports
David Basha
Robie Kulokivi aka WeRetCo. from EU/Finland
Ruben Mendiola / Dealernfa, Inc
John Thedford / nfasales.com
Tom W in CT / Housatonic Valley Firearms
Wayne / Select Fire in MD
Buck Powderly WAME Inc.
Skip Edgley
Mike Bell
Dan Shea / SAR Magazine
Pat Matthews
Jonathan Price [ 2 ]
Joseph Lewis
Carl R in Cameron
Joe IAZZETTA
Jim Keyes
David King
Richard Brunson
Ron Artman / www.ISoldMyGun.com
Dan Whittig / Texas Firearm Sales
Herb Zamar
Brian Borg
Randy Brinker / Brinker Supply Company
Roger Bohner
Doug Bathurst
Todd Gustafson
LOUIS CLEMMONS
Mike Otte / Michael’s Machines
Ross in VA
Frank Iannamico www.machinegunbooks.com
James Moline
Mark Northup
Leif Larsen
Gil Elmore / Allpower Equipment
Brenden Creed
Tom McGinn
Jim G S Sutton
David Stern
Mark Winder
William Rosenbalm
DOUGLASS NISSAN INC.
Boris Serebryansky aka BORE
Arthur B. Ferguson/Police Ordnance Supply
David M. Okinaga/North Coast Diversified
Doug Moretz
Harley Mackro
Mark Mohler
Lloyd Seested
Bryan Hudson
Michael Letson
Kenneth Robison
John Gercken
Randy Beckx
Robert Johnson / RTG Parts / www.RobertRTG.com
Russell McUne
James DeGroat / DeGroat Tactical Armaments, LLC.
Edward Jecha aka Ed J.in KS
Russell McDonald / www.ak-47.net / guns network
Guns and Grocery
Peter Chong
Kermit Zahm aka KermitZ en eMmEtT,EyE dEe hOe
Ted Sabate / www.EngageArmament.com
DeWayne Irwin
Harry Skok
G-MAN WEAPONRY, INC
Robert Brandkamp
Tim. Kader
Steven Fintel / Spring Creek Sports LLC
Dennis Scheid / www.investmentguns.com
Roger Cope / Cope's Distributing / www.copesdist.com
Alan Samuel
Roger Helms
Ron Smith
Tim Dean
Kevin Kuwata
Kenneth Jackson
Henry/Hank Donaldson
Carey Leidenheimer
DavidC in Bucks, PA
Eddie Weaver
Julian Gonzales D.M.D
Tony Rumore / Tromix Corp.
Rod Bowman aka Rod in NC
Philip Sheridan / Sheridan Arms
Sean Zapara
Ron Delia [2]
Carl Giuffre
DADE LLP
Steve Kendley
Scott O' Neill
John Lykins / Natural Solution Labs, inc
Ron Egalka
Frank S
Gil Angelotti
Robert Huegele
Kevin Cook
Jerry Frayser / Jerry’s Shootin Irons & Pawn
Michael Walker
Henry Smith / Smith Specialty Arms Inc.
David Newkirk
Thomas Belbey
Exeter Arms
Larry Lasco / www.FirearmDeals.com
Peter K. Sweet
Jerry Hawk
Joseph Bartels
Martin Cook
Perry Rawls
Jesse Hitchcock / http://www.ordnancedirect.com/
Mark Fuller
Gunstuff
Sherman Kirkland
Mike Johson
Lt Col Randy Roberts aka Randy in UT
Scot Hendrick
Mike-Sid in CT www.Oxford-Armory
Carl Hayden
James Coots / Summit Ordnance
Rick Scherr aka Rick s frackville Pa / Broad Mountain Ent.
Tom Cross aka Tom C. in Richmond VA
Fred Lucky
Robert McMillen
Rai Brown
Kirk Bergquist aka kirk in wisc
Charles Wagner
Fortrades in Indiana
Marco Torraca
Martin Lochte
Chris Jordan G3 Firearms
Blaise LeBlanc
Anne Bratfisch
Michael Ricketts
Glenn Oister
Joseph Michaud
WILLIAM LAFFOON
J Osborn
Eddie and sons David & Blake Tarpy
Dean Lucy
Kevin O'Neill / High Caliber Sales, LLC
Jim Sinnema / Cascade Armory
Rick Burns
Clay Owsley
Brooks O’Quinn
Mike in Dallas, Or.
Shooter's Shack
Chris Mergenthaler / CJM Machine
Fred Gallard. Houston,Tx. / Reloading Eq. Specialist, Dillon Products
Scott Cousino www.Cousinos-Firearms.com
Drew at Heavy Metal Armory www.MachineGun.com
Brian Lewis aka B & C Class Three in MI
D.H.Melton Co. Inc aka AZDoug www.srtarms.com
Charles Cuzalina aka Cuzco, Inc. in OKC, OK www.PreBanArms.com
Wm Lindsey aka WmL in Cola, SC
Frank Boback aka frank b portage, pa
Mick Cook MLC Exotic Class III
Albert Manzi
Alan Lipscomb
Christopher Glander
Azatty480
Chris Lo
John Yurcho
Paul Dixon
Thomas Ray
John Wheelock
Tom Hazell
Mark Katt
Arnold Dew
Jay Young
Greg Sytkowski
Jim Ronaghan
Richard L Boyd
Lee Tool
John Rose
Jeff @ CMMG, Inc.
JOHN SCHOENFELLINGER
IASON CARAYANNIS
Hayes Otoupalik
David Spiwak
Roger Moles
Paul Brockfeld
Alan Villanueva aka Alan V in N.E. PA
Don Seeger aka Hoover 1
Michael Toll / Tackl Equipment, Inc.
John / Longview Class III Arms
Greg Souchik - Allegheny Arsenal
Mitch Rosenfeld / Hollywood Law Enforcement / FL
Peter Marinari / Pete's Gun Room in Pa. Class 3
Steve Wentzell
Robert Giczy
David Kot
Randy Smith
Steve Tanner
Jerry Sanders
Jim Izzolo
Chuck Klein
Scott Boerschinger aka Scott in AZ.
Steve Colboch S.L.C. Enterprises
Barry Borum
Scott Boerschinger aka Scott in AZ.
Arizona Response Systems
William Mitchell

Comments from Supporters...

__________________________________________________

Yo, Buddy I was crusing the board, saw your notice again.
Taking Euros huh? That’s cool...now they can buy you lunch in Germany or Italy or something.
Anyway, I found an envelope with 20 in it that was in my desk drawer, sitting since last time.... I never got an address and have been traveling so much I have ten feet of files piled up.
Send me the address, I’ll send that and something else...
Thanks for the Boards
Dan Shea
________________________________________________________

Kevin Cook .....
Thank's for the board. I have just bought a nice H&K91 from Chris Jordan thanks to your board. I'll be happy to send you a few bucks as appreciation for the luxury of browsing the board on an almost daily basis. I hope to try to figure out how to post something soon, I'm kinda computer lame but have learned a lot. Your board kicks ass!! Thanks a million, Kevin Cook..
____________________________________________________________________________

Buddy,
Sorry to be slow on the Free Lunch donation. WOW!! I also just noticed the nice comment Kevin Cook had to say about me.(You have it posted under your comments, it's the first one.) That just made my night. It was a pleasure to deal with him on my end too.
Thanks again, and I hope you make a bundle, Chris Jordan

_____________________________________________________________________________

Buddy
Check on the way. Just want you to know that the other morning, about 0430 hrs, my normal sturm check time before work, I saw an HK 91&93 with a shitpot full of ACC's on your boards. I snagged the complete package for a HELL!!!!! of a deal. The awesome thing was---that the guy lives about 5 miles away from me. Took them and all the included stuff home that same morning. Never would have happened without the STURM. Will both be going to RDTS soon for FA conversions to go with my sear pack.
THANKS FOR WHAT YOU DO!!!!!
Mark Katt from Michigan
_____________________________________________________________________________________

Hi Buddy,
I Know its not much, but I like to show my appreciation to people who are not greedy. You never ask for anything with the service you provide for the people with millions of dollars.
I’m a retired high school math teacher , so I know how it is to be under appreciated .
Thanks
Jim Izzolo
_______________________________________________________________

Buddy,
Sorry for the delay in getting this to you -
I travel a lot and have been out for the last two weeks [ lots of catching up to do on the boards!]
Thanks for the great site. Although I’m not NFA, its great to read about it and keep up to date. Someday maybe I’ll be able to afford one ! Also, I greatly respect your commitment to the site... NO Spam, you keep close check on the “Bad Guys” and never hesitate to take a stand....
I appreciate that !
Best regards.
Steve Tanner
____________________________________________________________________________

Carl R in Cameron......
Buddy,
Thanks for the board, better than paying gunbroker or other auction sites. You keep a clean no BS site that has helped me sell and buy several items. Actually your board has cost me several thousands of dollars and it has been worth every penny. I added five extra bucks for dessert.
Thanks again for the board.
_______________________________________________________________________
You are welcome Buddy!
I don't do the buying I used to, but I still visit your board almost every day. Keep up the good work!
All the best,
Tom McGinn
______________________________________________________________________

Hey Buddy... I've always looked up to you for the way you stepped up to the plate when the Vollmers boards went tits up on us.

You probably don't remember but I purchased an AK-47 book from you several years ago and told you the same thing.

I'm one of the owners of www.ak-47.net and the guns network so I have at least a little bit of understanding about what you go through and what you put up with to keep this place running smooth... and my hat is off to you.

Thanks
-Russell McDonald

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Buddy,
I haven’t ever advertised anything for sale, but enjoy the site immensely and have found some bargains.
Take care
Steve Fintel
Spring Creek Sports LLC
Deshler, Nebraska
_____________________________________________________________________________________
No problem, let me know if you need more.
At least I know, when you say "I really appreciate it", I know you mean it. And by the way, I appreciate you dealing with and deleting all of the spammers & dumbshits.
Personally, I would go crazy
________________________________________________________________________________________

Buddy,
Thanks for all the great work. I love your board. I've sold items and bought items off it.
thanks,
alan
____________________________________________________________________
No problem Buddy.......I don't really do a lot of "business" at all there, but Sturm is set as my home page & gets read every day. Awesome site.....truly a 24 hour gun show!
Roger

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Enjoy it.
Lord knows you've earned it.
All those hours (millions ??) you've put into the boards for guys like me.
Thanks Mucho !!!!!
______________________________________________________________________________
Greetings Buddy,

Congratulations, and many, many happy returns to Sturmgewehr, the best site, hands down!

Regards,
Kevin
_________________________________________________________________________________

Hi Buddy,
I have your address but wanted to take a few minutes to say " Thanks". I can appreciate all the work that must go into keeping up with the boards. I don't post often but as a FFL/SOT I know how important your boards are to me and my customers. I have your address as listed below. Please let me know if it's still the same address. Again, Thanks for the boards Buddy and all the work that you put into them. Much appreciated .
Mike Woodward @ TSC Machine www.tscmachine.com
___________________________________________________________________________________

Hey Buddy,
Please send me your mailing addy. I do cruise the boards and love to know that the board is there. I've yet to sell anything or buy anything but I am more than happy to support any member of the gun community who gives us a place like Sturm.
Many Thanks,
John Goldin
Goldin Armory LLC
Goodyear Az.
__________________________________________________________________________________

Thanks for a great site!
I don't buy or sell much on your site, but I spend a lot of time on the road and Sturm always gives me something to check out in my hotel room!
It's dedicated guys like you that I feel are a great asset in the fight to uphold our 2nd
amendment rights!

Sincerely,
Chris Lo
____________________________________________________________________

Hi Buddy, although I don't sell much on your board I visit it everyday and it helps me to find alot of items you cannot find anywhere else on this planet. It brightens my day to see that we still have the freedom to buy and sell this stuff and my thanks to you for having a website to do it on.
Thanks again, John Wheelock
______________________________________________________________________________________

Hey Buddy,
It's Mick Cook from MLC Exotic Class III in Salem, Oregon. I need the address to get you your lunch. You would think I'd keep track of it, so I wouldn't have to ask for it each time. THANKS! Mick
BTW: Your boards are a wonderful thing for the firearms community. It's my Wall Street journal and I appreciate you for providing them. Thanks again.
_______________________________________________________________________________

Please send me your address so I may donate to your board. I look ever day and enjoy it very much. Keep up the good work. Fred Gallard. Houston,Tx. With Reloading Eq. Specialist, Dillon Products.
___________________________________________________________________________________

Buddy - pls send me your address. Have sold very little on your board, but have bought a lot. Also bought various books and manuals from Dave. A heartfelt thanks for the boards and all that you have to put up with in running them.
Jerry Sanders

The enlightener

Think youre posting in the wrong place dipshit!

Trae B.

"I" you have way to much time on your hands

Clay Cooper

A refuge from moveon.org!

Dr. Ralph

Buddy must have had a long day...

TIM50

Crossbows increase hunter numbers which is a good thing. We need as many as we can get to fight against antihunters!




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