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April 16, 2007

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Latest News Media Claim: U.S. Presidents Who Hunt Start Wars

I was watching “Real Time with Bill Maher” the other night and was struck by one of his “New Rules” rules. He ranted about Governor Mitt Romney’s pretending to be a hunter, and then said words to the effect that if we had fewer presidents who hunted, we would get in fewer wars, due to the alleged connection between “cruelty” to animals and cruelty to people.

This intrigued me, so I went back and looked at the record, starting with our first modern conflict, the Civil War (I have counted only real wars, not casual bloodlettings like Ronald Reagan’s debacle in Beirut, or Bubba’s excellent adventure in Somalia):

Civil War, entered into by Abraham Lincoln, a non-hunter.

Spanish-American War, entered into by William McKinley, a non-hunter.

World War I, entered into by Woodrow Wilson, a non-hunter.

World War II, entered into by Franklin D. Roosevelt, a non-hunter.

Korean War, entered into by Harry S. Truman, a non-hunter.

Vietnam, entered into by John F. Kennedy, a non-hunter. Presided over by Lyndon Baines Johnson, who shot deer from his convertible and picked up his beagles by their ears. Presided over by Richard M. Nixon, a non-hunter.

Desert Storm, entered into by George Bush, a hunter.

Iraq/Afghanistan, entered into by George W. Bush. I can’t find any real evidence that W. is a hunter; however, one website claimed that, as a boy, he enjoyed stuffing firecrackers in frogs, so I guess that counts for something. One the other hand, Vice President Cheney is a hunter for sure, and may actually be president, so we have to factor that in.

And so, out of eight wars, only three had hunting presidents involved. Out of ten (or 11) presidents, only four had even the most tenuous connection to making the bunnies sweat.

But I like Bill Maher. He is always angry, and sometimes funny, and frequently has interesting guests.

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Comments

Ralph the Rifleman

"The police have a duty only to protect society, not individuals."
Huh????
JA Demko-I think it's better to understand that we all have an opinion in a FREE SOCIETY, and trust me, when you make comments like this PLEASE feel free to speak for yourself.
By the way, checking for explosive devices in public places is protecting society.

JA Demko

"The police have a duty only to protect society, not individuals."
Huh????
JA Demko-I think it's better to understand that we all have an opinion in a FREE SOCIETY, and trust me, when you make comments like this PLEASE feel free to speak for yourself.
By the way, checking for explosive devices in public places is protecting society."-Ralph

You're too ignorant and/or stupid to even discuss this, Ralph, and I recently promised myself that I would stop wasting lifespan arguing with people unqualified to even have an opinion. Good day to you.

Ralph the Rifleman

Boo-Woo"You're too ignorant and/or stupid to even discuss this, Ralph, and I recently promised myself that I would stop wasting lifespan arguing with people unqualified to even have an opinion. Good day to you."
Thanks for proving my point..reduce yourself to insulting someone else when their opinion conflicts with yours..must be part of your "qualifications" in having a better opinion.I can see why you favor the ACLU.
Don't bother wishing me a Good Day, it's rather cliché when not sincere.

coup

I'd like to say that I wish to distance myself as far as possible away from you NRA maniacs. I do not agree with you, and perhaps you should be aware of who your audience is before you start making threating statements such as these. The logic of your post, namely that more lives are saved by guns than ended, was lost in a haze of silly insecurity.

J.M.

" "The police have a duty only to protect society, not individuals."
Huh????
JA Demko-I think it's better to understand that we all have an opinion in a FREE SOCIETY, and trust me, when you make comments like this PLEASE feel free to speak for yourself.
By the way, checking for explosive devices in public places is protecting society."

SCOTUS has ruled on more than one occasion that police have no responsibility to protect and serve the individual.

Case in point: http://www.forensic-evidence.com/site/Police/CastleRockRestraining.html

His opinion is backed up by a group of black robe wearing people whose opinions DO mean something.


Rick Earl

It is my deep belief that shootings like these are enabled by the unparalleled ease with which people procure weapons in this country And I believe this will reignite the dormant effort to pass common-sense gun regulations in this nation.We hunters should be behind these efforts and show the politicians that these acts are done with non-hunting guns.

Mike Diehl

The problem of course will be in determining the difference between "common sense" and "bs" gun regulations.

And I still think the paranoia about firearms is misplaced.

Lifetime odds of any particular American dying in an automobile accident -- about 1 in 78.

Lifetime odds of dying in an "assault by firearm" are 1 in 314.

It is thus demonstrated that elevating firearms injury risk reduction ahead of other sources of risk reductino is illogical on the basis of empirical facts.

These figures from the US National Saftey Council (an NGO 501C3 risk and injury tracking organization founded by the United States Congress in 1913 for the purpose of tracking workplace and other injuries) at:

http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm

BCR9000

Sad but True......Parts available OFF the Internet

In Response To: It is funny how Dana Reed can still be selling Lots of Victims out there NOT using the Internet.....

Ever see a Dana Reed WARNING .... Posted in ShotGun News or GunList ?

and don't forget GunBrocker.com actually SUPPORTS him by allowing him to post there......
so Boycott GunBroker.com

The guys a Turd...plain and simple

Jerry Nussbaum

I find it interesting that when people cite gun laws in Europe, and there supposed resultant public safety, they always leave out the most impressive example. Which European country has the lowest overall crime rate, lowest violent crime rate, and highest standart of living? Switzerland. Which country requires that all men age 18-65 own an 'assult-style' (actually military issue) rife? Switzerland. What European country worships championship marksmen like Superbowl MVP's, has a love-affair with guns that would make the NRA blush, and hoards ammo at a rate that would make the most UN-fearing American gun-nut jealous? Switzerland. In fact, there are parts of Switzerland that make would make Texas look down-right progressive on most matters, including firearms. Yet, you only hear about England and France and their restictive gun laws. I guess if they mentioned that these places were less safe than Switzerland, then the audience might not draw the intended, yet erroneous conclusion.

Remember, all of the deadliest civilian tragedies in modern western history have involved exactly zero guns (9/11, World Trade Center Bombing, Oklahoma City Bombing, Spanish Train bombing, etc). The last time I asked, you didn't need a FBI background check to buy fertilizer or box cutters. This is because these items have multitudes of practical uses other than killing innocent civilians. The Swiss have realized this about guns. I can only hope that the rest of America eventually will as well.

Zulu7

Pink Pistols Splash Page www.pinkpistols.org/ Thirty-one states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

--Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

We did. There are now over 35 Pink Pistols chapters nationwide, and more are starting up every day. We are dedicated to the legal, safe, and responsible use of firearms for self-defense of the sexual-minority community. We no longer believe it is the right of those who hate and fear gay, lesbian, bi, trans, or polyamorous persons to use us as targets for their rage. Self-defense is our RIGHT.

The Pink Pistols get together at least once a month at local firing ranges to practice shooting, and to acquaint people new to firearms with them. We will help you select a firearm, acquire a permit, and receive proper training in its safe and legal use for self-defense. The more people know that members of our community may be armed, the less likely they will be to single us out for attack. Join us today. It is your RIGHT.

Ralph the Rifleman

to: J.M.
Demko's rant against me started over a comment I had made against the ACLU...I tried to convey the point of right-vs-wrong, verses what the issue the ACLU makes about searches..which lead into the responsibility of police. I never stated that law enforcement was my personal body guard, but if a Felony/Crime is being committed in their presence, they are empowered to enforce that law being broken-(Like an armed robbery against you while standing at a bus stop)-and as citizens we have that power as well(Felony crimes). Concerning the legal defense in court of one's actions after the fact is another story. I guess the idea of "protecting" someone is being misunderstood here. Unlike the ACLU I don't challenge the searching of bags to curtail a potential public bomber, then lay restricts of passage into an office.Searches, even in a Free society, are necessary at times, in my opinion...such as I don't speak for Demko--the ACLU doesn't speak for me, either. Neither do I reduce my OPINION to insulting someone else--None of you know where I have been; so insults are like A**holes-Everyone has one, but some stink more then others.

Zulu7

Ralph the Rifleman sounds of the stud muffin looking fur action?

Ralph the Rifleman

I can live with that Zulu7!!

Slow Hand

What if the handguns actually disappeared? Banning guns could save lives.Banning guns from the workplace seems like the obvious way to prevent workplace violence and gun-free zones may appear like the solution to gun violence.The vast majority of academic research finds that concealed handguns significantly increase violent crime. We need to ban guns.Actually I'm sure it would save lives. I do believe that properly implemented strict gun control would save a lot of lives, but I don't see it ever happening in this country because criminals would be afraid to break the law by getting an illegal gun.
Just some kind of heavy regulation could help. In Australia, they have a ban on all automatic and most semi-automatic guns, as they don't really serve a purpose other than killing people.

Mike Diehl

"The vast majority of academic research finds that concealed handguns significantly increase violent crime."

That claim is not correct. The limited academic work done so far does, in fact, seem to demonstrate the opposite. In the United Kingdom, you are as likely to have a handgun pointed at you as you would be in Los Angeles California, and more likely than you would in Chattanooga Tennessee. And the UK has banned private ownership of handguns for years.

Worse still, the "contact crime" rates in The UK, Belgium, France, Denmark, Spain, Germany, and Italy are typically greater than they are in the US.. in some cases by a factor of two or three. A contact crime is a crime where the perp confronts the victim and uses or threatens violence (rapes, assaults, muggings and the like).

It is quite clear that violence in general and firearms violence are strongly associated with dense urban conditions, poverty, and criminal organizations, not with legal firearms ownership as such.

Iroc Bob

http://nimbusters.com/forum/forum.php?board=8

Mark Moberly

For those who state that they were marksmen even though they weren't hunters- As head honcho over the armed forces they should be able to handle a gun- duh!

Been there-Done that

If anyone of the classmates at VT had a carry permit, and had a pocket gun, wonder how many lives would have been saved. I have a carry permit, and my pocket guns goes where I go, if I;m wearing my pants, which I usually do.All gun owners should be responsible for their action, even if not a carry permit is allowed. Prior to my state approving the carry permit, I carried a small pocket gun for 40 yrs. Never have looke for trouble, but do not care to have some jerk shot me without a struggle. I also am a big game hunter, and when I hit the woods, my 44 mag goes also,.Be suprised at the looks I ahve received over the years while huntiong, when a un-known person walked up to me and I made a point to pull back my jacket to let him beware the long gun ws not all I was carrying. Do believe many times the handgun prevented a robbery or worse.The officials in teh county where VT is located dropped te ball on this guy. Why was his record not available to the shop where he purchased his guns>>?????? Others are to blame as well as the shooter in my book.Best I recall, a Judge imposed on the shooter to check in with some knee jerk official weekly, but he did not. Why was a warrant not issued for the shooters arrest, . Theye are many in VT who must share a portion of this terrible shooting. This guy planned to kill all in that classroom, I under over 300 rounds were fired??? but thats the media side of it. I'd rather be setting beside a guy with a gun showing, than a guy with a beer. Better pay attention to strange acting jerks next outing.

Been there-Done that

If anyone of the classmates at VT had a carry permit, and had a pocket gun, wonder how many lives would have been saved. I have a carry permit, and my pocket guns goes where I go, if I;m wearing my pants, which I usually do.All gun owners should be responsible for their action, even if not a carry permit is allowed. Prior to my state approving the carry permit, I carried a small pocket gun for 40 yrs. Never have looke for trouble, but do not care to have some jerk shot me without a struggle. I also am a big game hunter, and when I hit the woods, my 44 mag goes also,.Be suprised at the looks I ahve received over the years while huntiong, when a un-known person walked up to me and I made a point to pull back my jacket to let him beware the long gun ws not all I was carrying. Do believe many times the handgun prevented a robbery or worse.The officials in teh county where VT is located dropped te ball on this guy. Why was his record not available to the shop where he purchased his guns>>?????? Others are to blame as well as the shooter in my book.Best I recall, a Judge imposed on the shooter to check in with some knee jerk official weekly, but he did not. Why was a warrant not issued for the shooters arrest, . Theye are many in VT who must share a portion of this terrible shooting. This guy planned to kill all in that classroom, I under over 300 rounds were fired??? but thats the media side of it. I'd rather be setting beside a guy with a gun showing, than a guy with a beer. Better pay attention to strange acting jerks next outing.

Paul

stop it you big gun silly

Bigbenr

The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms? Truly sickening. Maybe the president thought this kind of disgusting knee-jerk right-wing orthodoxy would go down well in Virginia, where gun culture has a strong and historical hold, where the "pry it out of my cold dead hands" line is still a sure crowd-pleaser. But I'm betting it won't. I'm betting that the parents and siblings and partners and teachers of those thirty-three students are appalled by this disgraceful excuse for a national figurehead, whose first instinct in the face of tragedy is as it has always been to cover his own political ass.

I'm sure we will hear from them eventually. But it may take a while, because, unlike President Bush, they've got some real and difficult human emotions to work through first. I am so sorry for them, and for everyone at Virginia Tech, for what has happened today, and for the fact that the president of their country is too self-absorbed to have really noticed.

dkb2003

First, while callous and insensitive, this is not a new low for Bush. He *has* done much worse. If you've only just now realized that he is a sociopath, then you haven't been paying attention.

Second, I doubt if Little George was all that sinciere about the "right for people to bear arms". He also said "all laws must be followedi, and we know he doesn't believe that.

DueceII

gunbreaker will exploit your IP like Fudgebar's, stay away from it!! http://forums.gunbroker.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=4

Bigbenr

It is a very hard-hearted, self-absorbed and out-of-touch human being who can think that he represents the rest of us when he defends the right to bear arms . I feel sick for all the students, families, staff and administration of that school. I want them to know that I am ashamed of our President and to assure them that he does not speak for me. My heart goes out to everyone hurt by this tragedy. I feel strongly that that is most everyone. It's beyond shocking that the president's first words would be a defense of the right to bear arms. Right now isn't the time for that! Couldn't he have just issued a statement expressing shock for what happened and condolences for the family and friends of the victims? I expected nothing less from this administration. As I recall, in the aftermath of the Al-Queda attacks on the World Trade Venter and The Pentagon, Then Attorney General John Ashcroft did not want law enforcement agencies to be able to access information about Al-Queda terrorist cells purchasing firearms.

I wish The Bush Crime Family upheld and defended the rest of my rights as vigorously.

Been there done that

To Paul: who is the big gun silly you refer too???? If was directed to my letter about your comments, I never mentioned big guns, other than a 44 mag, which is not a carry gun, it's a hunting gun.




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