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November 28, 2006

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The NYPD Needs Your Help!

When I was in the Army, there was a drill that we called the Mad Minute, in which an infantry company would shoot every weapon it had nonstop for 60 seconds. I’m not clear what the purpose was, but it was lots of fun, and the American taxpayer footed the bill.

Apparently, the New York City Police Department has adopted the Mad Minute as tactical doctrine. This past Saturday, five officers emptied 50 rounds of 9mm ammo into a car that held three unarmed men, killing one and wounding the others. One intrepid cop cranked off 31 rounds, using up two full magazines.

Now I am not here to judge whether or not this was right or wrong. I am only an unqualified civilian. But I do know this. If the NYPD starts shooting at people who actually shoot back, they are going to run out of ammunition.

And so I call on you, my fellow gun enthusiasts, to lend a hand to New York’s Finest. If you have a spare box, or a case, of 9mm lying around, send it to people who need it more than you do. The address is:

Commissioner Raymond Kelly
New York City Police Department
One Police Plaza
New York, New York

Thank you.

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Comments

DS

To K Murphy: I have to hand it to you. You are absolutely correct! Not one of us came here to rant about this S***. So for that. I say THANKS for reminding me why I go to this site. So for last nights rant, and Flag waving. SORRY. I just get alittle protective. To the other writer you are correct someone did DIE, and no one wants that on their head. Only on TV do people hi- five and back slap. Its really like "HOLY S***, WHAT THE F***!!!!!, and then reality sets in. (been there, done that.) AS for facts, 11 shots, 4 shots, 3 shots, 1 shot and the imfamous 31 (50). Five guys, mixed back rounds and races. race not a factor. Watch the news in the next days, Lets see if things dont change about who did or who didnt have a gun. There were 4 guys in the car not 3 as our ever truthful media says. There are your facts. NOW back to HUNTING and FISHING.

A. S. Moeggs

Dave Petzal, since were on the left field topics again, my widowed grandmother wanted to know if you are single? She says you bare a striking resemblence to Sean Connery. Sorry to you other readers for wasting your time with my post, but hey, apparently anything goes on here now!

Brad R

Until you find yourself in a situation where you feel your life is in danger you don't know how you will react. Be careful how you judge these officers based on the liberal media and their careful wording (or lack there of)the facts. Remember this is the same media who gives so much time to those who don't want you to have guns or the right to hunt!

Dan

ummm i think that if Dave wanted this discussion to be about hunting, he would have said something about it.

Dan

Also, just because someone ran into your car is no reason to kill them... and then bring up 9/11 as an excuse

Brandon

Unbelieveable that we should have to read this in an outdoorsman's magazine. Save your liberal B.S. for public radio.

A. S. Moeggs

Dear Daniel, the coppers did not mearly have there car "ran into" as you indicated. It was more like attempted vehicular homicide-where deadly force is met with deadly force. Now get back to baking your Christmas cookies.

Ja Demko

The cops may well have been justified in shooting this time. 9/11 still has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this incident and trying to say that it does is intellectually dishonest.

O Garcia

Dave P.,

Both Finn Aagard and Chuck Karwan when writing about the Lee-Enfield rifle have mentioned the British version of the 'mad minute', where a 'good man' (remarkable how simple terms were back then) is expected to fire 15 aimed shots with the Lee-Enfield rifle at a man sized target 200 yards away. 'Experts' could do 20, even 30 aimed shots with the L-E, which was noted for its fast operation, esp. compared with Mausers and Springfields with their longer bolt strokes.

I suppose the mad minute was a carryover from WW1 or an even older war, when infantrymen had to hold off waves of attackers, before machineguns became widespread.

John Broussard

The "Mad Minute" has nothing whatsoever to do with what happened in NYC last week!

Police are simply not allowed to shoot under the same rules of engagement the military operates under.

The only argument that anyone could possibly have against those officers is the number of shots they fired, and until someone with practical experience can tell me exactly how many handgun rounds it SHOULD take to stop a car, I'm not convinced they did anything I wouldn't have done in the same case.

I'd bet my next two paychecks that most of those rounds were aimed at the driver of that car; and they got him and stopped the vehicle before it caused even more mayhem, so job well done.

What is intelectually dishonest is trying to portray those thugs in the car as "just a group of boys out having a good time". Did any of them have jobs? I understand that they had more than a dozen arrests between them.
or the other cop-out...
"They were afraid to stop because it was a bad neighborhood." Well, they weren't afraid to drink and party in that neighborhood for several hours before the incident, so they couldn't have been THAT afraid of the place.

Brandon

First off, I thought that this was a hunting and fishing magazine, but I would like to write that I am a Detective with the Hartford, Connecticut Police Department. Hartford is a City, but quite a departure from NYC. I write this simply as a matter of fact, and not to gain respect, admiration or pity.
Mr. Petzal, Im a little disappointed about the departure from the usual program, I always enjoyed your writing. Im also disappointed in your comments, which seem to take a liberal slant, but I respect your opinion / right to free speech just the same. As I remember, its a right that we all enjoy, and something that our military people have lost life and limb for. Its a right that deserves to be exercised cautiously and with consideration for how it was earned.
Making fun of NYPD is never something that Ive thought of as a "good" idea. Ill leave the 9/11 thing alone, but I will write one thing in relation to it. That was a day that was unprecedented upon American soil save Pearl Harbor, and as we all know some NYPD guys lost their lives (among many others of course) trying to save others who they did not know and had never met. How better can you illustrate through action (which is really what counts) the respect for mankind and life itself that these individuals possessed. Second, NYPD officers have been tested on plenty of occasions where the encounter was gun on gun and or justified use of deadly force. I personally think theyve done pretty well. Usually, in a lethal force encounter surviving is a luxury that is sought and not always achieved. Enough said there I think.
And for a moment, think of how profoundly the mere involvement in this incident has and possibly will effect the lives of the officers involved and the lives of the people around them. Think of the distanced relatives, lost friends and ruined relationships / marriages. Think of the potential of lost employment / job security, professional reputation, pension, personal finances and litigation, civil and criminal should the investigation turn out badly. Personally I have seen the outcome of shootings deemed righteous and not, as well as those that needed resolution within a court of law to decide such. I can tell you that it was never pretty or pleasant. Forget about religous and personal beliefs about the final consequences for taking a life. I doubt that anyone, even the guy who gets pulled over by a cruiser every day and gets a ticket would think for a second that these individuals would consider for a second that knowingly and unlawfully shooting an unarmed person in the performance of their duties would end up in anything but a seemingly endless abyss of uncertainty in every aspect of their life, both personal and professional.
Last to some of the more "ignorant" responses from at least one of the readers posted, referring to folks from the "north" as "Yankees", (smile when you say that), remember that we are ALL AMERICANS, and you might want to crack a book because the last time I checked, when we ("Yankees") and the south ("Rebels") locked horns, things got pretty ugly. Also, Im sure that "marksmanship" played more than a small part in the preservation of the "Union". Last, as I wrote initially, I hope to enjoy reading on matters concerning outdoor activities and I hope that we never have to endure a debate like this in F&S again. When I show up to fish fresh water or salt, hunt birds on dry land or near water or get out into the woods for deer, I treat every person I meet as a friend and an equal. I dont ask their political orientation or where they hail from. The individuals involved in this incident deserve our consideration and our faith in the investigative process. Personally I hope for the best for them.

A. S. Moeggs

Vote for Brandon- Field and Stream gun editor!

PATRICK MOYNIHAN

LAST TIME I CHECKED, A CAR LOAD OF THUGS SPEEDING TOWARDS PEDESTRIAN POLICE OFFICERS IS LIFE THREATENING, REGARDLES OF WHETHER THEY ARE ARMED OR NOT. TO JUDGE THESE OFFICER'S RESPONSE IS PREMATURE WITHOUT A COMPLETE AND THOROUGH INVESTIGATION.
I SECOND THE MOTION TO APPOINT BRANDON AS FIELD AND STREAM GUN EDITOR.




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