I spent 5 days last Nov. in West Virginia hunting deer. Did I get one, no. But the most satisfaction I gained from the hunt was I was able to withstand the snow,ice,rain and cold and not run back to the truck. I am 40, my 7 year old daughter will probably never see or understand how life was for me growing up, and how can she, the world has changed. If the world is full of girly men and pansies, then we as parents have to take some of the blame. We let our children veg in front the tv or computor monitor, some never get a breath of fresh air and we wonder what is wrong with them.

I'm glad I don't live in the parts of the world you are talking about. I'm 25, and my wife and I are putting in a new house. This weekend I dug in the sewer system with a borrowed backhoe and a shovel. This week I'm building the forms and next week pouring the concrete. Good old North Dakota. I wasn't raised to watch other people work. I have a college degree, but still know what a blister is.

I concur with your observations between boys and girls. When I was a 4-H Shooting Sports instructor, my best students were the girls. Shooting was new to the girls, so they listened to what I was teaching, paid attention, and shot better than the boys did. All were under 12 years old.

As part of the "hopeless" Y generation, I take offense when those much older than I make cracks at our "lacking" work ethic, courtesy, and all of our other faults. Not that any of it doesn't apply(as matter of fact MR. Petzel, your right about most of it), it's just that there are some of us who are exceptions (which you acknowledged,under your breath), and it hurts to hear the truth about the rest of our generation who is busy giving us a bad name. I personally have found it hard to interact with older hunters when in the field because so many of them assume that you are irresponsible, lazy, and whatever else. Though some elders are merely impressed by your presence in the woods, it's a challenge in itself to overcome their presumptions and truly earn their respect. It took waking up at 3 am and being the first to arrive at a local WMA during opening weekend of turkey season for me and my best friend to raise the eyebrows of some 40 something year olds. And maybe that's what it should take, but its sad (on behalf of my own age group) that older hunters treat such a situation as if they have just seen an albino squirrel. In the end, I know that my generation is lacking in many facets of life, but I try my best, especially when it comes to hunting. I've done my share of hiking, wading, crawling, freezing, waiting, etc., and I am damn proud of it. So next time, Mr. Petzel, when you or any of your buddies come across a 20 something year old in the woods or at the shooting range, please don't let the faults of so many ruin a chance to teach or encourage a young outdoorsman. That being said, I want to say that you are my favorite writer at F&S. Keep doing what your doing. And by the way, whats the name of that outfitter in Montana? I'm game.

Let me clarify by adding that you can take your examples of bad behavior from any generation you want. Here's three groups of older hunters I saw last fall (I'm an early X or late boomer... wherever you want to put 1963):

A couple of reeking, bourbon-high 60-year olds hopelessly lost in their truck, asking me where the "salt mines" were (they'd been directed there by the USFS) because they didn't bother to get a map of the area they were hunting.

Four 60+ year olds road hunting from a slow-moving blazer, rifles leveled and out the windows.

One rather portly looking bald guy, making remarkable speed across the landscape. He wasn't seeing anything but everything else was seeing him.

Two youngster's in their 30s or 40s led by their 60-something dad, also looking for said "salt mines" (there is in fact a salt mine nearby, not that it makes it less funny to hear them ask about it) and also without a map. (I gave them my spare map.)

So if you don't like some Gen Xers or Gen Ys, remember that they were trained by their Boomer parents.

Well, you all have realy tossed this around and I think you have your points both Pro and Con. As the grandfather of two grandsons, with a father that is working his butt off to provide for them, I have taken the task of teaching them the world of the outdoors. I have taught them to shoot ,track ,hunt and don't know if I will ever teach them patience. I think that comes with age. As others have pointed out it takes an act of congress to drag them from infront of their gameboys and other instant gratification electronics. Like it or not, it is the generation that thrives on instant gratification. All any of us can do is to offer them the oppertunity to explore the great outdors and all it has to offer. It doesn' matter what the generation designation is, it is, that we must allow them the exposure and let them decide where their futures will take them. I'll always have room in my hunting camps for my grand kids and their father when he has time to join us.However, it is strange to watch the kids around the campfire after a hard days hunt playing their gameboys!

Dave -

Your statements about the younger generation are true for the most part, but, as you said, there are exceptions. And I am one of them. I owe this fact completely to my dad and grandpa. They raised me right and taught me responsibility, work ethic, and how to hunt and fish. I don't take offense to your statements, but I am disgusted with the lazy, pampered whiners that comprise most of my generation. But please, as Adam Poore said, give us a chance. You never know when you'll run across an exception. I can't count the times I've been the object of scorn by strangers on hunting and fishing trips. Although, the fact that I am considerably undersized for 16 does nothing to help. In 2004, my dad, brother, uncle, and grandpa went to the Flattops in Colorado to bow hunt for elk. We had to backpack all our gear over 5 miles and 1,000 feet of elevation. Before we began the trek, a man at the trailhead hefted my pack, laughed, and asked me if I thought I could make it up the trail. I strapped the pack on and said "I know I can." The backpack weighed 60 lbs, as much as 75% of my body weight, but I made it up the mountain, and never considered quitting an option. I simply heeded my father's advice, "Just bull up and get to work" and plowed into the pack straps.

adam poore put it the best i agree. I am a young south dakota hunter and old people think im lazy or stupid because iam young but i bet i can out hike and out walk crawl or any other thing the you old guys can

To Phil: Learn a little punctuation, grammar, respect, and couth, and you will go far! Improve yourself and us old farts won't think you're stupid or lazy...

You older guys had better stop whining about the younger dudes and just pray you took your responsibilities as parents seriously, because as Mike Diehl pointed out, it's the Gen X'ers and Y'ers who are going to be footing the high bill for your SS checks and Medicare checks and paying for all the other entitlements the older generation has voted into place. I mean talk about lazy, the older crowd has never met an entitlement they wouldn't vote for or a hand out they wouldn't take, and yet, they say the youngsters are bad. Huh. Everytime I look at my paycheck I'm appaulled at the money siphoned off to support these programs. Thank God 401K's are pre-tax because our older friends have their hands in our wallets so often there's little left for us to save by the time we pay the bills.

Re; K. Welch's comments about punctuation and ee cummings.

ee cummings is dead.....grammar isn't

To Rob: You hit the nail on the head with this one! I was born in 1973 to two great parents (father of the deperssion era and served in WWII , mother of the early 1950's generation). However the so called "Greatest Generation" is the first in our country's history to have what is called RETIREMENT. It's likely that my generation will be working till we're in our 70s and 80s, with no retirment, even when we save money now and have 401K's. While I am very disturbed by how irresponsible, lazy, ill mannered most of my generation has become. Even greater disturbed by how feminine guys from my generation are. I think that if the babyboomer generation had done it's job properly, they'd have nothing to complain about. I plan on raising my boy to appreciate the benefits of his hard work, to shoot, be safe, and respect firearms, to realize the consequences of every action. Better yet, I hope to give a good enough example of what a man is supposed to be, so he can grow into one himself some day.

I think that the proof is in the responses posted here. My generation is bombarded and forced worse case scenarios instantly from every angle. Everything immediately gets reduced down to money and then justified with personal credentials. "I'll have to pay for you" and "I work hard." It's what we've been taught, and we will pay for it, but not just with our pocketbooks. We will have to work hard and not on carrying stuff around or doing things ourselves but on the real things that we are missing out on by narrowing everything down to the lowest possible denominator. My generation doesn't have the tools to see the forest through the trees. Some of us have a head start by seeing what we're missing, others will learn- but you older guys already knew that. By the way sorry about the grammar and or punctuation, it's four in the morning and I can't get to sleep- now that I've solved all the problems of the world ;) ha ha I'll work on mine tommorow.