As a recent college grad it is hard for me to justify spending $200 - $1000 on a rod simply to support american buisness. I currently own both domestic rods and foreign made models and until money is less of a factor i will have to pay close attention to price when shopping for new fishing equipment. I try to practice the think global act local mantra whenever possible, so when i do have the available funds I will buy quality local goods. Unfortunately for the time being if I have to buy foreign made rods to keep me out on the water, I'm willing to make that sacrifice. I will not however be purchasing anything from Walmart nor other big box chains. I'm dedicated in the very least to supporting my local fly shops.

This is a topic we speak alot about in the store. We believe whenever possible to support products made in the states. Although we can not cut off our nose in spite of our face, there are products we need that are made overseas. Rods are not one of them. Reasons for us not selling foriegn rods are part technical and part romantic. Rods are special and are the heirlooms of the fly fishing industry, selling foriegn rods is something I have a hard time getting over. I also sympathize with customers and the high price of rods. But the idea that american rod companies don't make good rods in the lower price points is false. In fact we have found these rods out preform most of the foreign rods.

We sell alot of high end rods because we believe in the products and have a base of customers who demand the best. The problem lies in a shop employee who sells down to the customer, this unfair to the customer. He is being told that he can get a great rod for less. He can get a good rod but flat out not a great rod. He is being sold something he thinks will preform well in tough conditions and that is simply not the case. If a comsumer can not afford the high end rod then we simply find a product that will preform the best for the money they want to spend. It is true there is value in a Sage launch or Scott A2.

Many people are being cheated by manufacturers who make products very cheaply over seas and are pricing them at a premium. Just because you paid 200.00 for that foreign rod doesn't mean you got a good deal. The customer thinks they are getting value but they are most often being sold a turd. We see it all the time, the overseas rods that we have inspected are often rough and don't preform well in tough conditions.

So far we have been able to keep to this philosophy. I just can't look my customers in the face and tell them something I don't believe in.

Made in America... we need to support our home made products as much as we can. Yes, some of the over seas product do the job,but, a the end of the day supporting our rod makers here in America is just the right thing to do.

Kirk let's turn it up a notch - How about tossing FLY REELS into the mix?

All fair game to me ... let's talk about reels also. I definitely lean "Made in the US" when I buy reels, but I think the real price issue there is machining versus die casting.

When price rules, the high-line American manufacturers lose. But why does this have to be? Can't we outsmart them? Outwork them? Or is the only way to win to outsource them as well.

I would prefer to buy American if possible but simple economics apply.

After working in a high end retail shop for years I am of the opinion that gear marketed toward the fly fishing demographic is extremely overpriced. I believe that manufacturers have done an excellent job of branding and some consumers don't mind even insist on buying the most expensive newest gear on the market. The more expensive the better it ups the "techie factor" and gives the end consumer a sense of economic superiority. This is a great demographic for the American manufacturer.

As to the issue of American made products. I feel that the majority of people who like to fly fish are not the high end gear elitists that I just mentioned and just want decent gear at an affordable price. Although they might prefer to buy American, if a cheep overseas reel will do the exact same job for a fraction of the cost, it makes it pretty hard to buy (made in the USA). The trend has been in place for years---the less expensive the item (ex. flies--name one major manufacturer with a tying operation in the US). The cheaper the gear and equipment that we use, the more that gear will get outsourced or beat out by overseas competition. This is only an issue as products from overseas infringe on some of the high end manufacturers and threaten traditional small fly shops that we hear about it.

In the end although I prefer to buy American and as long as I am in the market for high end gear I will. I think he who has the best product for the best price will be the winner and will have my business. Instead of worrying about overseas competition I think American manufacturers should see it as an opportunity to keep setting the product bar higher, renew the emphasis on customer service, and keep reinventing their brands thus keeping ahead of the international game.

Let's take a look at fly fishing growth. Yeah - the numbers are declining.

What single manufacturer is trying to change this downward spiral? TFO... They are working with the BIG BLOCKS to distribute their product to an audience that is much more demographically diverse than the local fly shop.

All TFO has done was develop a business plan that is OUT OF THE BOX THINKING. TFO identified a trend with the fly fishing industry:

1. For the most part competitors only focus on their product development and marketing to those who already participate in the sport.

2. TFO identified a weak point of the industry and has taken control of this segment with increased market share and providing a product that is cost effective.

TFO had a marketing plan on bringing in a fly fishing legend to help sell the product. If you have never picked up a rod, and read the "bio" on Lefty would you buy it?

Good approach - and now our panties are in a bunch because foreign made products are taking a share of the overall market place.

TFO is ultimately helping the sport grow, as they have identified an industry wide weakness - ATTRACTING NEW COSTUMERS. Just like seeing Peyton Manning pick apart a rookie corner back.

I think there are some generalizations made in this discussion. Alot of people assume that newbies are buying these rods. This isn't completely true. I believe there has been a dumbing down of the industry where rods are concerned. In the past Sage for example has mentioned in their literature that their mid priced rods were great, this is verbatim or course, but the great word was used. Each company is rushing to make great rods for lower prices. I don't think this is possible. Great should be reserved for innovation.

I have had more than one customer come in my store and say,"You know I own lots of high end stuff but the lower end is so good now I think I will probably start to buy my new stuff in the lower price range". This person has been convinced through all the hype about "GREAT" cheap rods that he now believes that he can get just as good a rod for less. This simply is not true. So it is not always the newbie. My evidence is or course anecdotal but is interesting to think about.

The other thing that strikes me as contrary is that there are "fewer people in fly fishing today". If that is the case then were are all the beginners who are buying these rods? The industy isn't growing. Well simply put I don't believe they are beginnners. They have been sold down by a fly shop clerk who has been unfortunately trained to sell down. Again I have no problem with value rods. The consumer should not spend money they don't have and I don't feel the need to push them. We do however take the time to educate someone on how important a rod purchase is. You don't have to be a pushy saleman you just need to take time to educate your sales staff and the customers who come in your store. Tyler makes a great point about how cheap it is to make these foreign rods. Customers in my mind are being ripped off. They believe they are getting a premium rod for less, it just ain't so!
No manufacturer can make it on beginners, they must have a significant part of the mature market to make it. You can't say the indusrty isn't growing and then say XYZ company has had all this growth because they brought new people into the sport. You can't have it both ways.

Chad you are dead on with educating the customer. I have been to many fly shops where they are trying to upsell to the newbie. They are pushing the $600 rod, $500 waders, $200 boots, and so on that it just baffles your mind.

I do not readily support foreign made products. I am just merely fascinated with the introduction of the foreign rod. If you really dissect the issue, it boils down to marketing and how the public is sold this bill of goods.

American is where it is at for the necessary tools. You pay for quality when it is stamped American made, and can make you stand tall and pound your chest. It would be great to see if some of our American manufacturers could bring a quality product that puts a hamper to those made abroad and slows the slow boats from China back to port in Asia.

Here's to the red, white, and blue, and when you see the tag Made In America, you know there was time, effort, and quality put behind it. On top of that, you just kept someone else employed within the 50 states and did not support a foreigner's family.

Chad - please enjoy another frothy beverage on Sir Deeter's tab.

American born, American raised, American proud. Let's take care of our own.

I love what I do and care deeply about this industry. I consider what I do a priviledge. I have moved from very young dumb fly shop owner to an older fly shop owner who is still pretty dumb, don't know if I will ever figure it out. I most often feel pretty lonely in this battle within the industry. I am glad I can come here and discuss these issues with intelligent and introspective anglers who share this passion with me. Also a big thanks to Deeter for creating this forum and F&S for providing it.

yes, american rod companies make the best rods, RIGHT NOW because basically they are the ONLY ONES making rods right now. that's because fly fishing has been an esoteric elitist sport that only the 'rich' can afford, there hasn't been a big market for the average consumer, so there has been no need to produce inexpensive rods. you can't introduce fly fishing to the masses at current gear prices. with most people in debt, with a house mortgage, family, etc...most people can't justify spending $1000 just to get started. better that they buy a cheap rod and spend $100 on a casting lesson, that'll go them much more good than whatever a suppposed $700 sage rod does. (i fish all that stuff b/c i get it on guide pricing). look at lee wulff, he broke plenty of records with crappy gear.

the only reason the major rod companies are coming out with inexpensive rods now is that they've finally been busted by competition for getting away with raising their prices continually for the last several years without recourse. look at what happened with american cars in the early 80's with the introduction of japanese fuel efficient vehicles. or look at the american wine industry and the subsequent influx of cheaper foreign imported wines. the average consumer can't appreciate or justify cost-wise the aesthetic subtleties of the high-end products.

now with TFO and foreign production/competition, prices of fly rods will be market-derived. i'm not entirely sure that quality of the products will suffer. so far, american rod manufacturers have had an oligopoly (like american car manufacturers in the 80's) and haven't been pressured to produce the best product at the most efficient cost.

don't knock overseas manufacturing. the reason that stuff is made in china or korea is because the labor is cheaper, not that they can't produce a high quality product overseas. look at japan. the best electronic products are being produced overseas. waders and flies are all made overseas also, but for different reasons. do you really want to pay much higher prices to have the best quality tied flies and american made waders? didn't think so...

if you want to debate the morality of foreign imports and outsourcing, let's debate our trade laws. if you want to debate 'american' loyalty out of dumb nationalism, then take another look. competition is healthy. there will always be a market for the high end, but it will occupy exactly that niche: the high end. like an 18 year old single malt scotch. not everyone wants or needs the best. ultimately it's about consumer choice.

and if you live in america and tout it's capitalistic advantages, isn't that what it's all about: choice???

This idea that American rod companies are just now making inexpensive rods just isn't true. Sage Scott and St. Croix have been making lower end rods alot longer than the newer lower end manufacturers have exisited.

The other thing people in fly fishing have to get over is this idea than new anglers who come over from conventional fishing won't spend money on high end product. I am willing to bet that the average hard core conventional angler owns more gear by dollar amount than the average hardcore fly angler. The reasons people don't pick up fly fishing has less to do with money and more to do with the idea that fly fishing is mainly for trout. I have built a business on former conventional bass anglers, it can be done. I hope the industry is finally getting it. The introduction of new bass tackle has created a buzz in our store and I see lots of future possiblities in atracting more conventional anglers through further product developement and application. It ain't hard guys show a bass guy that bass can be caught on fly tackle and you will see one pumped up interested angler who is ready to spend!!!

These anglers are incidently the best anglers who come into my store bar none. Ask Deeter what he sees at bass tournaments he has covered for F&S. No group of anglers spend more. From the big guys right down to the bass clubs, which about every county in America has, spend like no other group!!!