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Discussion Topic: On Pennsylvania Pigeon Shoots
From an NRA press release:
Amendments filed by State Representative Daylin Leach (D-149) to Senate Bill 151 and House Bill 1543 could be considered by the House at ANY MOMENT. Simply stated, this legislation would criminalize and ban organized pigeon shoots . . . .
Pigeon shooting is an historic and legitimate activity steeped in tradition with many participants throughout the Commonwealth and around the world. Participants are law-abiding, ethical shooting enthusiasts, hunters, and sportsmen who would not tolerate an activity that would constitute cruelty to animals.
Do you agree? Should pigeon shoots continue?





Hello,
Having grown up in the Mnts. of NC, the only place we ever saw pigeons was in Asheville, and everywhere... I now live over in the UK, and pigeons, wood pigeons are the species, and they can do some serious crop damage, similar to the damage that we all read about in Argentina. So here we organize guide pigeon shooting over grain fields, the only way I can describe it is, imagine decoyed duck hunting, but no ducks of course, with a hide along the edge of a field, decoys in front of you, shooting all year around. These gray birds are about double the size of a dove, and they decoy similar to ducks. These birds have great eyesight, and offer the gun every shot you can think of. And if you catch everything right, weather, wind etc. At the end of the day, you will have 100+ at your feet, yes 100+, the world record is 500+ in a day.
So my thoughts would be that if the bird is causing a problem, you need to do something about them. We shoot them, oh, the birds go into the food chain to restaurants and to Europe.
Thanks for letting me give you what we do over here in UK.
Bryan@Sportingagent.com
Posted by: Bryan Nelson | July 03, 2008 at 10:56 AM
Yes they should be allowed.
Posted by: Mike Diehl | July 03, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Grain-fed birds? I want a piece of that. That ignorant State Rep hasn't seen the legacy we got from the snow geese. Let's crop them off forever! To Bryan: sorry but I can't imagine the state of my right shoulder after dropping a couple of hundred birds in one day. Might just be worth it.
Posted by: Brian T | July 03, 2008 at 12:44 PM
I feel that we are loosing the war of "cruelty to animals" little by little against people that don't know anything about nature. What a shame. I'm sure Pigeons will still be shot in PA no matter what happens.
Posted by: Wes | July 04, 2008 at 10:31 AM
What's next, criminalizing dove hunting! Geez!
Posted by: JohnR | July 04, 2008 at 10:26 PM
Bryan, I believe you have the wrong idea of what they mean by "pigeon shoots". What you are refering to sounds more like a dove hunt, except with pigeons instead of doves. The kind of pigeon shoots I'm assuming they are talking about in the story are the caged pigeon shoots. If you are not familar with what I am talking about let me explain.
If you can recall one of the beginning scenes in Charles Dicken's "A Tale of Two Cities", where one of the French royalty was shooting pigeons as they were released from a cage some distance away. This is what they are referring too. It has been a common practice for hundreds of years, and it is were the shooters with REAL MONEY can be found. Many times it is a competition and the way it is set up you have to not only kill the pigeon but also kill it and make it fall in a certain area for it to count. A lot of money can be bet at events like this. Let me also say, pigeon shoots today in the states are done on the down low. It is by invitation only, so that the animal crazies don't show up.
Finally, to adress whether I feel that shooting pigeons with their tail feathers pulled out so that they flie crazy and not in a straight line constitutes animal cruelty or not. Well I do think it is unfair to the animals and a waste of perfectly good birds. It was one thing in the 18th century when there was no such thing as a clay target and certainly no machine to throw it, but in todays age of trap, skeet, sporting clays, five stand, and a variety of other clay target games, a body can stay busy for a lifetime shooting clays, and hunting wild birds which have a fair chance.
With that said, I will certainly never be seen protesting a pigeon shoot. I feel the same way about baiting bears. I would not do it, but I wont sit around and say that others should not do it. For me it is a personal choice to hunt wild animals in their natural habitat without the use of artificial (to the animals habitat) attractants.
If read that entire post you are as bored as I am since we are done cleaning up from our bar-b-que and the rain screwed up the fire works thing.
Posted by: alabamahunter | July 04, 2008 at 10:55 PM
i personally have no problem with dove hunts or pidgeon shoots. i do know that there are places in eastern pa. where very well monied persons purchase birds and release them for skeet style shooting. they even go so far as to hire shooters to edge the property and shoot any birds that get away from the compitition shooters. i do have a bit of an ethical problem with that. however i also have an overriding hatred of the winged rats from living in new jersey. that being said, hunting is fine. the canned shoots, not my cup of tea.
Posted by: jersey pig | July 05, 2008 at 11:39 AM
This is what happens when liberal democrats take over. They've tried to ban dove hunting in a number of states as well and dove hunting is the most popular form of bird hunting in the USA. I've been on "English style" tower shoots where various birds were released and hunters rotate between stations. The shots are generally challenging and I'd estimate more than 50% of the birds escape. Elections matter- if we don't get more people into hunting and more hunters voting it's only a matter of time before PETA takes over.
Posted by: | July 07, 2008 at 10:04 AM
Thanks so much for the explanation, alabamahunter. Yeah, shooting caged birds doesn't seem too fair chase. I've also heard that you don't have to kill the bird to get a bird scored--it just has to fall down in the scoring area. I know how the animal crazies can be, and lord save our children from being one, but those kind of wounding and release facts coupled with the high stakes betting...that's no hunter. We shouldn't be giving them one more excuse to lump us all in as bad people out to kill. Cause if we say this is hunting, maybe they're right.
Posted by: Kevin Gregg | July 07, 2008 at 04:41 PM
I agree with Kevin. Shooting birds that are released from a cage isn't too fair. All it really is is gambling. They pay so much to be a part of the event for a chance to win money.
Posted by: Ryan Houseman | July 07, 2008 at 04:57 PM
organized pigeon shoots and dove hunting are really very different things. these birds are importade and who knows if they weren't raised in a cage. they're released in front of the hunters at the event and they pay for the chance to shoot them.
Posted by: John Richards | July 07, 2008 at 05:05 PM
Caged shoots like this make all hunting look bad and frankly it should. When the public sees caged, launched animals being tossed in front of hunters, what message is passed about fair chase and respect for wildlife? It is long past time for hunters to put an end to slob hunting practices that make everyone look bad. Why is the NRA wasting time and resources on this? Are there not enough important issues that don't make hunters look so stupid?
Posted by: DJ | July 07, 2008 at 11:12 PM
Real sportsmen should be in the lead on fair chase issues and not let the anti's make the decisions for us. We need to stand up for our sport. Caged shoots are not hunting and they make the non-hunting public believe we are all slobs with no ethics.
Posted by: Mick | July 07, 2008 at 11:44 PM
I'm shocked to find so many of you actually defending pigeon shoots. Of course this isn't hunting. Of course this is animal cruelty. Geez! Caged shoots where nobody eats the birds and people bet on the outcome (and yes, that is what we are talking about here) is akin to dog fighting. It's abhorrent. Look, the NRA is big and powerful enough to protect our guns, and that's all well and good. But don't let them think for you. Pigeon shooting is wanton cruelty--plain and simple. Hunters should be leading the movement to get rid of the slobs who participate so they can no longer muddy our name.
Posted by: Joel | July 09, 2008 at 08:51 AM
Leach is a moron, who ironically "shoots" his mouth off way too often. He uses causes like this for political reasons so that when he is in a non-hunting crowd he can point to this Bill. I suggest that you individually support his opponent, who ever they maybe with your wallet so that we can get this idiot out of a position of authority.
Posted by: PA Democrat | July 11, 2008 at 12:52 PM
Leach is a moron, who ironically "shoots" his mouth off way too often. He uses causes like this for political reasons so that when he is in a non-hunting crowd he can point to this Bill. I suggest that you individually support his opponent, who ever they maybe with your wallet so that we can get this idiot out of a position of authority.
Posted by: PA Democrat | July 11, 2008 at 12:53 PM
When you have an event where animals are launched, thrown, or tied down so someone can shoot them you tarnish all hunters that believe in fair chase. To shoot an animal that you have no plans of eating and not caring if it is injured then it is animal cruelty. Like people that poach out of season it gives the good hunters a bad name. Respect the animals, respect the sport of hunting.
Posted by: Makita | July 12, 2008 at 12:17 PM
Is this the kind of pigeon shoot where the pigeons are captive-raised and then released from cages to be shot at?
If so, that is not hunting. I am a dove hunter and have no problem with hunting doves or pigeons. But shooting caged pigeons is not hunting. It's farming pigeons and then executing them for fun. I'd say that PA is justified in prohibiting that just as we have laws on the books regarding how other animals are treated in the process of farming and slaughtering them.
I have no more opposition to the passage of this law than I would to a regulation requiring that factory farmed pigs be given X volume of space to move around in.
Anyone who participates in that sort of pigeon shoot will get no support from me. I don't consider such people to be fellow hunters. Just unethical slobs with shotguns. They give the rest of us a bad name.
Posted by: Jackson Landers | July 16, 2008 at 12:26 PM
I live on Long Island , NY We are covered with pigeons and their feces. They are now all over the suburbs having spread from the city. They carry an array of diseases that will put you on a respirator. Pigeons are a nonnative invasive pest species and are harmful disease vectors, given the opportunity to have sportsman shoot and control them I would vote yes. Thank the sportsman for the service to the community.
Posted by: wendel | September 25, 2008 at 02:42 PM