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July 25, 2008

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Discussion Topic: Utah Supreme Court Gives Anglers Access To Private River Beds

From the Park Record:

Anglers are catching 20-inch trout where they haven't fished in a decade since the Utah Supreme Court decided they could walk on riverbeds on private land.

Where the beds are considered private property, "the public has the right to touch privately owned beds of state waters in ways incidental to all recreational rights provided for in the easement," the 10-page Supreme Court opinion issued July 18 states.

No surprise, the ruling is expected to heighten tensions between anglers and property owners. Can you access river and stream beds on private property in your state? Do you think you should be able to?

Comments

Mike Diehl

IMO this is an excellent ruling.

Bubba

I've been here before!

After checking the Federal laws on such matters, (Public Waters) I attempted to contact the local (county) authorities on the same matter.

This involved a named waterway within the state (Texas) of more than one hundred miles. I was having problems finding an area to hunt and had decided that if I floated the river in my canoe, I could shoot game within the "second bank".

The Feds consider anything with a maintained width of thirty-three (33) feet as a navigable stream down stream from that point (33 feet in width) and therefore, Federal (public) property.
The county, on the other hand, considered the center line of the stream (regardless of width) as the landowners boundary and therefore, under the control of the adjoining landowner.
Re-contacting the Fed end of the bargain, I discovered that the Fed's couldn't care less. That is unless it involved "commerce"! According to them, they would honor the more restrictive laws. Ergo: Even if the stream was fifty feet wide, I could not hunt within the "second bank"!
I didn't then nor do I understand now, how a county ordinance can supercede a "Federal" ordinance!
Needless to say, I didn't get to hunt the "public" area I had hoped to. It was just too complicated and the stakes too high! Just one more season without a place to hunt!

I have seen other streams (rivers and creeks) that feel within the same rules. As long as you stayed within the "second bank", you were free to access the area "at will". The second bank was often easily notable. It was the area covered with trash!

With both these considerations in mind, I can understand why the adjoining land owners are reluctant to allow, shall we say, trespassers! True sportsmen would not have left their trash behind. It's the slobs that have caused the more restrictive laws!

With access to a previously unaccessible stream, hopefully true sportsmen/women will help in keeping the area open to all, regardless of mentality!

Bubba

hank

i am going to sight in my muzzleloader using 85 grains of pyrodex powder, i will sight the gun in using 270 grain powerbelt bullets. Would i see a accuracy change if i sighted the gun in w/ 270 grain bullets but then switched to 245 grain to save a couple of bucks?

Scott

Bubba,
A county law or State laws can override a Federal law because the 10th amendment says: " The powers not delegated to the united States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Our Union was founded on LOCAL Govt. They didn't like the fact that King George was taxing them all the way from Brittian, and they would all S**t themselves if they saw how much power we have let DC get. (everyone but Hamilton that is) Now Bubba your plan to float fish, would work in Virginia except that the only game you can kill from a boat are waterfowl. In all regards I respect your opinion and agree with you, I don't know if I agree with the govt. telling people who can use thier private property. But since we can lets keep it clean people or we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Sage Sam

If I remember correctly, states in the Great Lakes like Michigan have always had laws on the books that make waterways and shorelines public and I have't heard of much trouble with them.

Shane

Just about all river bottom in VA is public property. I can only think of one or two rivers where private ownership of river bottom has been granted. Though some people think they own river bottom, fish, and water itself. I have only run into one such individual who was set straight by the local game warden and the sheriff after hassling several groups of fisherman.

JohnR

Pardon my ignorance but would someone explain what the second bank is?




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