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December 29, 2008

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Petzal: Some Savagery for the New Year

Savage Arms, which gave the shooting industry the leaping fantods when it introduced the Accu-Trigger, has just announced the Accu-Stock, which is just as radical. In stocks, as in other areas, the more rigid the better, and there are a couple of ways to achieve this. The first is used by High Tech, McMillan, and New Ultra Light Arms, who employ Kevlar and graphite, or reinforced fiberglass, to create a stiff stock. The materials themselves, when fused together, are more rigid than a rifle barrel, but such stocks are made largely by hand and are expensive.

The second approach is to use something limper, like polymer (which can be made fast and cheap) and strengthen the stock with an aluminum spine. The Accu-Stock is polymer, reinforced with an aluminum spine that runs from the action all the way down for fore-end. But there is more: Savage employs a wedge bolt to push the recoil lug back into the aluminum spine. This is not a new idea; Ruger has been doing it for decades but with a bedding screw that pulls down and back at a 45-degree angle. In addition, the Accu-Stock’s bedding cradle squeezes the action from all sides, fusing (or so claims Savage) the action and stock into one unit.

This runs counter to conventional stock-making wisdom which holds that all the pressure on an action should be downward, and that the only hard contact between action and stock should be on the rear face of the recoil lug and (optionally) at the tang. During the late 70s and early 80s, when synthetic stocks were just starting to be accepted, it was common to epoxy the entire action in place. I had three rifles that were so stocked and invariably broke the action free so I could get at the triggers. None of them shot one iota differently when they were held together only by the bedding screws.

But we shall see. The Savage Accu-Trigger has had a major effect on rifle design over the past decade, and Savage may be right about its new stock, too.

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Comments

WA Mtnhunter

My son has an older Savage 110 with the synthetic stock. Don't ask me what it's made of, just an old Savage black synthetic stock that is butt ugly. It also does not have the Accu-trigger.

However, this rifle will darn near cloverleaf 160 grain Trophy Bonded's at 100 yards. I bought it a few years ago off the online gun auction for $220. If Savage is making a more accurate 110, it should be good!

dickgun

I have a Rem 700 box rifle in 7MMag that was bedded in one of Chet Brown's very early all kevlar stocks. This seems like a hundred years ago now. It has been my 'go to' rifle for most of my personal hunting for med size game as well as serving as a weapon available for a client's use if his Weatherby (generic) show-gun failed. About the only thing that rifle has not been exposed to is being dropped out of an airplane at +1000.'
It still shoots a MOA esp with 150 gr Fed/Pre bullets.
To follow up on another note, while diamond will cut steel faster than anything else I know, I have found that is is possible, using grades of fine or Xfine, to finish a blade as delicately as if approaching a fine ladie's accouterments for love.
All best wishes for a safe and joyous Christmas season to Mr. DP and all you Gun Nuts where-ever you may be holed up for the winter.

Happy Myles

I've been pretty lucky, 65 years filled with shooting and hunting just about everything and never had any of countless rifle stocks rebedded. All but three purchased before synthetic stocks appeared on the scene. Most game seems to go down, so I don't fiddle with the carburator. Have redone a lot of triggers and barrels though.

About 30 years ago while firing a .470 side by side, the stock split behind the tang due to recoil. After the shot, the webbing between my thumb and trigger finger remained pinched and held fast in the stock. They wanted to pry it apart with a screw driver, but I said no- didn't want to scratch the stock-so pulled hard leaving some skin and meat. A gunsmith pinned and glued the stock behind the tang, and it still shoots great.

Just woolgathering, really wanted to wish everyone a wonderful Christmas, and may your miles be as happy as mine.

dartwick

If it really does make the entire stock effectively 1 solid stiff piece with the action and barrel it can only be good.

But I think the kind of accuracy this matters with respect to is extreme. I know Savages are good but Im not sure if they are all around good enough for this matter.

Myself I couldnt shoot well enough to see the difference unless I was on a rest with sandbags - then maybe on a good day.

Beekeeper

Being one who is sinistral in the manipulation of firearms and other worldly devices, I have depended on Savage rifles for quite some time. Savage being one of the few companies (most affordable) that paid attention to us port siders. I have found their products to be quite dependable and very accurate. Usually digesting anything you feed them with nary a complaint. Some of Savage's offerings do tend to dwell on the homely side though...

A Savage 111 in 25/06 was stolen from me a few years back. The miscreants who stole the gun also stole a box of my wife's .260 Remington ammo, you guessed it they shot a 260 round in the 25/06. I got the gun back after the buttheads were arrested several weeks later and found the bolt stuck tight. I knocked it open with a wooden mallet and out popped something akin to a 45/70 case! No discernable damage, change in head space, or loss in accuracy. In one word, tough!

The black "Tupperware" stocks produced early on by Savage were a bit flimsy. This was easily addressed by an application of Accra Glass Gel, the resultant bedding job being very similar to the new Accu Stock. I can see where the same bedding done in aluminum would be advantageous. I will report back on the performance of a recently ordered Savage 116 when it arrives in January, as it will be wearing the new Accu Stock!

I wish all you Gun Nuts out there a Merry Christmas and a very happy and prosperous New Year!

Quiet Loner

I get this blog at work & only get by the office & computer a couple of times a week. Usually it's too late to comment. Imagine my delight in finding a blog for a date that hasn't even arrived yet! Unfortunately, I don't really have anything to say this time except maybe the other gun companies should try to hire whomever is coming up with all these good ideas at Savage. Beats heck out of some of the "new" guns released lately.

John

For a firearm company that specializes in affordable firearms, Savage is doing some pretty impressive things in the accuracy department. Though I don't own any of their firearms, I can appreciate the fine quality at an affordable price. I have fired several different 110's, and have found them to be pretty accurate. One thing that I didn't care for was the scratchy feel when working the bolt. I know that this can be remedied with a little lapping compound, but it would be nice if the rifles could come from the factory just a little bit more slicked up.

Bella

I own one Savage, a model 24 over and under combo gun (.22 over .410) . It lacks the accutrigger but it has a fine walnut stock and the .22 is quite accurate for my myopic eyes. It is my second model 24, my first was the "campers companion) .22 over 20 gauge. It is my "little critter getter". Rabbits and squirrels run and hide when I take it out. My only complaint I have ever had of it is that you can't put a sling swivel on the forearm because the forearm pops right off for taking the gun down. If I had to evacuate the farm and hole up in the woods this would be my long gun of choice, kind of a "cape rifle lite".

Clay Cooper

Savage has finally waked up!
Savage Model 10ML-II Muzzle Loader has caught my eye and my 50x209 Magnum Encore T/C has seen its last of days!

YYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BUDDY!

You know if it catches my eye, it has to be GOOD!!!!
Thompson Center the Master gun maker? 223 barrels with 1-12 twist not in 1-9 and they are telling me they do not have any intentions to follow suite for Savages Model 10ML-II Muzzle Loader?

IDIOTS!!!!

Good job Savage!!!

Clay Cooper

Going down to Dallas to see the Grandkids and shooting back Friday to catch the three day rifle deer hunt.

Merry Christmas to each and every one of you especially to Mr. David Petzal and Mr. Bourjaily and thank to the two of you doing what you do!


Merry Christmas and God Bless!

The Cooper Gang!

Clay Cooper

Wow!

I said Merry Christmas and God Bless and the internet didn’t catch fire!

OrangeNeckInNY

Clay, a .223 barrel with a 1:9 twist limits your ammunition choices. I believe you're limited to bullets between 50 & 72 grains. I suppose a 1:12 twist will help stabilize heavier bullets used for deer hunters and still be able to shoot the lighter stuff. I could be wrong.

ray

Glad we can reply to this post before listed date..Eggnog already Petzal..Merry christmas..:-)

Dr. Ralph

Savage has been awake. They produce an extremely accurate rifle at a ridiculously low price. New stock whatever. American products that work... cheap. Had the old .22/.410 OU myself.

GO TEXAS!

OrangeNeckInNY

Clay wants to shoot 60 grain nosler partitions that 1-12 will not stabalize.

Jim in Mo

GO TEXAS !,
You got it right, the longer bullets need more spin. Why they didn't introduce it with at least a 1-10 is beyond me. It wouldn't have hurt the light 55gr. bullets the military wanted to use at all. But it wasn't the military that screwed the M-16 up and gave it it's bad reputation, including non-chrome lined barrels and a powder change. It was that grease ball McNamara. What he thought he new about guns I don't know. I think all that Brilcream on his hair sunk into his brain.

ishawooa

Merry Christmas to each of you from snowing and blowing Wyoming. I hope you enjoy the best holiday ever...

jes

Bella, have a Savage M24, myself, in .22mag. and 20ga., and Uncle Mikes makes a nice forward sling swivel that clamps on the shotgun barrel...Makes that little handy gun easy to carry, for sure....And Merry Christ Mass to all!

Danny McClung

I've owned several Savage's and they have always been very study,
accurate rifles and they are chambered for some of the more exotic caliber's(25-06) in the factory rifle world anyway. I wish they would bring back the 250-3000
Ya I know the 300 Savage is there but its not as good as the 250 Savage....Happy Hanakah

Bernie Kuntz

Jim in Mo.--an acquaintance of mine is a retired Marine Corps Lt. Col. who was awarded the Navy Cross at Con Thien in 1967. He told me of M-16s jamming and Marines getting killed because of inoperable weapons. He said the powder type/charge was to blame.


I used an M-16 in 1970 in Vietnam with the 1st Marine Division, fired several hundred round in combat without a single malfunction. I never did like the M-16 but can't complain about the one I was issued.

Can you tell me anything about this powder error? I don't understand what the initial problem was.

Yeah, McNamara is a piece of work. He is one of the biggest villians this country has ever seen.

Jim in Mo

Bernie,
At this moment I cannot recall if the militarty wanted to use a ball or stick powder. But they were convinced it would be more reliable in the type of jungle environment of Nam. But, the politicians (McNamara) stuck his nose in that too and insisted it be loaded with original tested powder. There had to be some payoffs there. Why would he care?

Jim in Mo

BTW, the History Channel has an excellant show on the development of the M-16 and the meddling politicians during its' creation.

eyeball

My idea of gunsmithing is 1. Buy gun 2. Take gun to range 3. Gun won't shoot with anything I have in the house 4. Get Rid of gun. If step 3 is Gun shoots fine, then step 4 is Keep Gun. So for me, this Savage stock is a great thing. Unless the barrel is cross-threaded in the action, just about any Savage should shoot pretty well right out of the box.

It seems to me that Savage is the only gun company that is trying to woo buyers by improving its product. Savage beat everyone to the left-hand action, the accu-trigger, and now a stock that fits the rifle without having Kenny Jarrett bed it for you. And they do it at a price that does not steal the joy from a poor man with kids in college.

Having said all that, I want Savage to re-introduce the Model 24 Camper's Companion or an improved version of it. That gun came and went a long time ago, before I could even blink. Nobody who owns a clean one now is dumb enough to sell it to me. The current 24s are overpriced and weigh as much as an assault rifle. A .22/20 ga. O/U gun's home is the squirrel woods, and the Camper's Companion was just right. If I was a survivalist I'd pole vault over a 20' pile of AR-7s to get one Camper's Companion. Come to think of it, in the Age of Obama I guess I am a survivalist. Bring it back, Savage, with a synthetic stock and screw chokes.

eyeball

P.S. Merry Christmas, everyone.

Shaky

When I was much younger and dumber, I traded for a mod.24 Savage in .222/20ga. for coyote hunting. I used a call and lure set-up, and thought that gun would be perfect for the job. Alas, I got the gun in the spring and had plenty of time to tinker with it, so took it to the range with factory ammo to see how it would shoot. First group after sight-in measured over 2",and didn't improve much with my long working on a good handload. I firmly believed a rifle HAD to shoot 1"or better in order to be acceptable for any kind of hunting. As I said, I was much dumber, and believed all that bs I read in the sports mags. I traded the 24 for a .308 that was worth three times as much money on the open market, and got $100 to boot. Then, after years of hunting and shooting, I would gleefully pay every cent I received for that old gun, because I have discovered that a 2"group from a hunting rifle is much more than adequate for taking coyotes or any other game animal. I do own three rifles that will shoot under 1", and they are for p. dogs and other very small critters, but you don't need that kind of accuracy for game. I know, everyone's rifle, be it a Mod.94 30/30 or a .378 W.M. or .35 Wheelin will shoot "one hole 5 shot groups all day long, as long as you do your part", but frankly, I've been around long enough to know those statements are mostly more B.S. and wishful thinking.
Anyway, Merry Christmas every one of you. May God bless and keep you through the holidays.




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